Closed eyes,soft belly,sleepy

[Michal_K]

Hello readers of this forum. I came here because of problems with my baby sulcata called "Dino". After all I have read I think, that problem was that tortoise was kept in very dry conditions and seller advised me to continue in that way (because it is AFRICAN desert tortoise). After receiving Dino I have called to seller and wrote him several times, but he wrote me that keep humid hide and air caused his problem. But Dino had soft belly from the start. In my area are no specialist vets so visiting vet would not bring any help, their specialities are dogs and cats. I have collected poop and send it for analysis on parasites - results were negative. I have also another two baby sulcatas from different breeder and they are active and gaining. I am tryng to bath Dino daily, during the bath it opens eyes but not so wide. I think that it is slowly dying When I got him (4 months ago) he weight 56g and now is on 51g. Exposure to the sun is still not possible - we have still winter and with sunny day we have 10 celsia (50 fahrenheit). I have already tried to exchange UVB from new Repti Glo - Reptile 200 - 15.0 UVB 25W to UV lamp ReptiEye UV 35W PAR30, but it did not improve the situation. I am feeding them with dandelion, dried grass, dried dandelion leaves, chinese salad, I grow chia and weeds during the winter. Now I plan to put him to separate box - with lighting, water, hide etc. to monitor if he eats and how much. Questions - did you have such problems and how have you solved it? Did the tortoise survived? What would you change? I feel very helpless :/

 

[JoesMum]

Baby torts do have soft bellies that gradually harden during the first year.

However, there's a size difference between this one and the other two and it is possible this one is being bullied.

In any case it must be separated to make sure it doesn't make the others sick.

Can you post photos of the enclosure and lighting please so we can spot any problems.

What temperatures do you have directly under the basking lamp, warm side, cool side and overnight minimum.

If you haven't already, I recommend you read and act on these threads and ignore any information you have received from other sources
http://www.tortoiseforum.org/threads/beginner-mistakes.45180/
http://www.tortoiseforum.org/threads/how-to-raise-a-healthy-sulcata-or-leopard-version-2-0.79895/
http://www.tortoiseforum.org/threads/for-those-who-have-a-young-sulcata.76744/

 

[Yvonne G]

I'm afraid there's not much you can do for this baby except pray. You can tell by the picture that his shell is very thin. He has needed calcium and UVB for a very long time.

Put him by himself in a small, covered enclosure. Make sure the temperature stays 80-85F all the time, day and night. Feed him calcium-rich greens, and sprinkle a TINY bit of calcium over the food, then mix it up so he can't see it. Along with the calcium, he needs a GOOD UVB light. The calcium makes the shell and bones strong, that's its job. The UVB makes the calcium do its job.

If the bulbs you have are the curly shaped compact fluorescent bulbs, then stop using them. If they look like either of these, stop using them:

These have been known to harm baby tortoise's eyes, and they don't put out very much UVB.

Buy either a Mercury Vapor Bulb or a regular tube type fluorescent bulb:

There are a few different brands, you don't have to buy the brand I've pictured. If you can't buy them locally, then buy them online.

Calcium, UVB, special attention and prayer - that's about all you can do for this baby. He is suffering from MBD (metabolic bone disease), and that is very painful, so it may be pretty hard to get him to eat.

 

[Michal_K]

Thank you for your replys Joes an Yvonne. Yesterday I have separated them, but I have not noticed any bullying during the 4 months. I have placed picture of their enclosure...now it looks little different, I have added two hides. Temperatures and humidity is measured. Under the basking spot in the ground a little bit is 35 celsia (95 farenheit) and on the cold end where i store food and water is 26 celsia (78 farenheit). During the night the temps go on regular room temperature 22-24 celsia (71-74 farenheit). I am trying to keep humidity between 60-80%. Due to small tank I have choosen curly bulb from the start (I did not know about possible eye problems) because it is 25W and to it I had 40W heat. When I started to have suspicion that something is wrong with Dino - no gaining,soft belly, closing eyes all the time I have changed it for UV lamp ReptiEye UV 35W PAR30 which should emit UV of afternoon tropical sun with maximum temps 45 celsia (113 farenheit) if placed in minimum distance. Is this bulb good? I am worried that bigger watage would caused too much heat. I put calcium (clean CaCo3 from pharmacy) on the food 2x a week. The odther two had the same food and the same conditions.
During sunny days it is about 20 celsia (68 farenheit) on the sun, should I take him and make 15 mins exposure to natural sunlight? How about some forcing to eat - I am afraid, that he stopped to eat (now when he is alone I can tell for sure).

 

[Bee62]

Hello Michal,

your temps must be higher for a sick baby tort.
40 Celsia under the basking lamp and 30 Celsia in the "colder" area.
You urgent need a ceramic heat edmitter for the night ! For a sick tort the night temps should not drop under 28 - 30 Celsia.
Room temperature is too cold.
It is good that you try to keep the humidity high, but when it is too cold in the enclosure the hight humidity makes your torts sick.
It is easy: Warmth and high humidity = good for torts
but Cold and high humidity = bad for torts
But a high humidity is very important that your baby don`t get dehydrated.

And please don`t take your sick tort outside when it is 20 Celsia outside. This is much too cold when he/she is sick. Place it under the new UVB bulb and feed it there. And don`t forget to soak the sick baby.
I am sure that the baby don`t stopp to eat because it is alone. It will stopp eating when it is kept too cold.

 

[Michal_K]

Hello Bee, thank you for answer. I was afraid to have very high temperatures for my little ill tort Dino. I can make it better, but I have to buy the ceramic heat emitter for night as you have wrote. Dino did not eat so far an he moves with closed eyes :/ He open them only when I soak him...can I somehow force him to eat? If I put something instead of his mouth he did not open it.

 

[JoesMum]

Hello Bee, thank you for answer. I was afraid to have very high temperatures for my little ill tort Dino. I can make it better, but I have to buy the ceramic heat emitter for night as you have wrote. Dino did not eat so far an he moves with closed eyes :/ He open them only when I soak him...can I somehow force him to eat? If I put something instead of his mouth he did not open it.

I think Dino needs to see a vet.

You could try adding pureed carrot baby food to his soaking water.

 

[Bee62]

I think Dino needs to see a vet.

You could try adding pureed carrot baby food to his soaking water.

@Michal_K said:

In my area are no specialist vets so visiting vet would not bring any help, their specialities are dogs and cats.

 

[Bee62]

Hello Bee, thank you for answer. I was afraid to have very high temperatures for my little ill tort Dino. I can make it better, but I have to buy the ceramic heat emitter for night as you have wrote. Dino did not eat so far an he moves with closed eyes :/ He open them only when I soak him...can I somehow force him to eat? If I put something instead of his mouth he did not open it.

To add the pureed carrot baby food in the soak water like @JoesMum said is one thing you can do trying to help Dino.

 

[Bee62]

How long did Dino not eat ?
You can add birds vitamins in his soak water too.
Force feeding a tort, especially a baby is not easy.