Can variety be bad if it contains a lot of Goitrogens?

[Victoriatori]

It's currently still cold, though the seasons are thankfully changing, but I want to be aware for next winter. In the winter a lot of my options are grocery store foods but when I look on the tortoise table a lot of them have goitrogens which it says are bad if not in moderations and that I should be feeding my little guy a combination of any of those options. So he's been on a varied diet of green leaf, romaine, endive and escarole mostly, occasionally adding in some kale (with the change in seasons I've been able to find some watercress and dandelion greens and am planning on having a look outside around my mothers house for more weed and flower options). But in the one of the sticky posts attached to the top of this forum the person mentions quite a few foods that contain them. But I also know that variety is important for tortoises, should I add in more variety or just leave it the way it is if the variety I would be adding would contain more goitrogens?

Thanks in advance guys, I really appreciate it.

 

[Tom]

Variety is important. They should be eating lots of different things. There are many ways to provide this variety. A base of endive and escarole is great. Add in cilantro, dandelion greens, arugula, collards, kale, mustard greens, turnip greens, radish tops, etc..., and then supplement with either of the zoomed pellets, grassland or forest, both types of Mazuri, soaked horse pellets for fiber, and best of all, I like the dried leaf mixes that you can sprinkle on top and mix in. I like the herbal hay from Tyler at tortoisesupply.com, and Will @Kapidolo Farms has a huge assortment of dried leaves and other items to mix in. I highly recommend an assortment of these mix in items in winter when weeds. leaves, and flowers are not available.

 

[jsheffield]

Tom said it perfectly.

I also feed my Russians a small amount of butternut or spaghetti squash or pumpkin, once a week or so, but mostly greens and weeds and flowers and a bit of kibble and a dried plants mix.

 

[RosemaryDW]

Opinions vary on whether goitrogens harm tortoises; they can harm people but there is no particular research showing harmful impacts on tortoises. I don’t worry about them—I might be a poster in that thread, lol. But I also feed a very broad diet and don’t have to worry about prevalence of any one type of food. I also know a tiny bit about plants, enough to be comfortable identifying them and researching further if I want.

I personally think we warn people so often of “possible” food harms that we scare them off trying things outside of a very small list. Russians in the wild eat a ton of ranunculus and oriental poppies, both of which a well-known food database has marked with giant red do not feed marks. They also eat a bunch of brassicas, which is a plant family we often warn not to overfeed.

You are still a new owner and there is no hurry here—your tortoise has decades to go! You don’t need to feed anything you feel is unsafe; just don’t take the Tortoise Table as gospel.

 

[queen koopa]

Opinions vary on whether goitrogens harm tortoises; they can harm people but there is no particular research showing harmful impacts on tortoises. I don’t worry about them—I might be a poster in that thread, lol. But I also feed a very broad diet and don’t have to worry about prevalence of any one type of food. I also know a tiny bit about plants, enough to be comfortable identifying them and researching further if I want.

I personally think we warn people so often of “possible” food harms that we scare them off trying things outside of a very small list. Russians in the wild eat a ton of ranunculus and oriental poppies, both of which a well-known food database has marked with giant red do not feed marks. They also eat a bunch of brassicas, which is a plant family we often warn not to overfeed.

You are still a new owner and there is no hurry here—your tortoise has decades to go! You don’t need to feed anything you feel is unsafe; just don’t take the Tortoise Table as gospel.

“Also know a tiny bit about plants” ?? I follow you for your tiny bit of plant knowledge.

 

[RosemaryDW]

“Also know a tiny bit about plants” ?? I follow you for your tiny bit of plant knowledge.

It really is a tiny bit. I had a section in high school biology where we learned to identify local plants; field training! Add a little Google-fu and BOOM, lol.

The info I know about Russian diet in the wild is actually posted in the Russian section: https://www.tortoiseforum.org/threads/article-steppe-tortoise-diet-in-the-wild.30230/. I think about it every time someone says something is a NO on the Tortoise Table, especially buttercups.

 

[Kapidolo Farms]

The short story long, A vet had published what was by statement and critical reading a speculative diagnosis for the neck swelling in large tortoises, Galops and Aldabras. The suspicion was goiter from a lack of iodine, possible plants considered goiter causing. Much anecdotal observation and no clinical results has confirmed this. The author of that paper has said he wished he never published it as it has funneled to much effort into the wrong better discovery of the issue.

On the neck issue the current concern/thoughts for the edema is some thalamus concern.

As for plants with human goiter causing compounds. There is a preponderance of anecdote that there is no issue.

The short version. No know issue of human goiter causing plant based foods effect tortoises with goiter.

Much like the oxalate concern, the lack of evidence starts to become evidence.