Burmese Star Winter Housing Questions

[mrnewberry]

What are you guys using for winter housing or year round housing if you go that route? I am currently using a closed chamber and plan to keep that up for at least their first couple of years. I am especially curious about adult indoor housing. (Planning for the future.) It is hard to find many photos or videos online. So, if you have a photo, video, or description of your indoor housing, especially if it works for adults, I would love to see it.

 

[Markw84]

Allen

I have to keep mine in for the winter. I use a couple of 4x8 closed chambers the same as the build I detailed in a post about 3 years ago. One of them has 4 cutouts for deep concrete mixing tubs to give about 1/3 the chamber a 10" deep substrate for egg laying as the Burmese are winter layers.

Here's that chamber ready for paint. I put it on wheels so I can move it as it is extremely heavy especially with all the substrate in. I took a lot of the modification for egg laying chamber from @Sterant He gave me a lot of input on this.



Here is an inside view in operation:



Here is how I set up the electronics:



I am in the process now starting to build some test enclosures with the same general concept, but using PVC board. I am doing some with 6mm board sandwich with 1" rigid foam insulation inside. I built all the previous chambers with 1/4" plywood and 1 1/2" rigid insulation. I want a well insulated chamber that is more consistant with temperatures and can be used in an application like my second garage. I am working on a modular design that can be expanded.

Hope this helps.

 

[mrnewberry]

Hope this helps.

That is very helpful. Thanks for taking the time to post all that info!

Anyone else want to share?

 

[Sterant]

Here is one of my 4 X 8 units for overwintering my Bowsprits. The only thing I can add is that the plywood floor in these units rot out very quickly even if they are painted well. I would highly suggest you either protect the floor plywood with something like linoleum or PVC sheets or plastic or something similar, or paint it with a very high quality coating like epoxy or similar. The area under my water dish was amazingly deteriorated after only 6 months of minimal water spilling out of the dish. And this was through 6" of substrate.

 

[Tom]

The only thing I can add is that the plywood floor in these units rot out very quickly even if they are painted well.

I concur. Fully.

@mrnewberry I've switched from building my own from wood to using these from Animal Plastics: https://apcages.com/collections/terrestrial-cages. They have a 4x8' size that will suit adult sized platynota well. I've never asked, but I'll bet they can make it shorter then 4 feet tall.

 

[mrnewberry]

I concur. Fully.

@mrnewberry I've switched from building my own from wood to using these from Animal Plastics: https://apcages.com/collections/terrestrial-cages. They have a 4x8' size that will suit adult sized platynota well. I've never asked, but I'll bet they can make it shorter then 4 feet tall.

Thanks! Those do look nice and would certainly save a lot of effort. How are you accommodating for nesting? Also, how many adults can be housed in one?

 

[mrnewberry]

View attachment 261881 Here is one of my 4 X 8 units for overwintering my Bowsprits. The only thing I can add is that the plywood floor in these units rot out very quickly even if they are painted well. I would highly suggest you either protect the floor plywood with something like linoleum or PVC sheets or plastic or something similar, or paint it with a very high quality coating like epoxy or similar. The area under my water dish was amazingly deteriorated after only 6 months of minimal water spilling out of the dish. And this was through 6" of substrate.

Thanks for sharing! It does sound like having pvc at least for the floor and perhaps several inches up the side would be very helpful if one doesn't want to do a lot or repairs.

 

[mrnewberry]

It seems like 4x8 is a pretty common size for housing platynota. If I recall correctly I think @KenS also uses that size. It makes since from a materials standpoint as that is the size that plywood and pvc sheets generally come in. How many adults platynota can be housed in a 4x8 unit? I would assume that the number might vary some under different situations such as housing only males, housing males and females together, or housing nesting females.

 

[Sterant]

I agree with @Tom that the Animal Plastics cages are the way to go. The only challenge with them is that their production schedule is often 3 months out, so plan in advance. To Tom's question - they will make the 4X8 enclosure shorter than 4 feet tall if you want - they just charge a custom fee. 4 feet tall is a bit much for me. When I build them myself, I go 3' tall.

As for nesting in them - you can reinforce the bottom, then cut holes to sink tubs in. I don't know about platynota, but with some smaller species, I know guys that set a tub of dirt inside the enclosure with a ramp up to it. I don't love that, but it seems to work for some.

 

[Markw84]

I do agree the PVC sheets seem the way to go. However, I must add that If done correctly, plywood construction is extremely long lasting.

I have always advised to be sure to use exterior grade, sanded and filled plywood only. It is just a few $$ more, but needed for our application. Almost every time I post this, someone seems to reply that it really isn't necessary. But the construction method of making exterior grade is much more rigid and designed to resist any moisture intrusion. They also use a totally different glue in the plywood that is water resistant.

I use a decent primer, and then 3 coats of Countertop Paint on the bottoms. The type of paint matters. Many seemingly great products just do not work well on plywood and do not deep penetrate and really seal. Fiberglass is a good example.

Here is an enclosure for my Male Burmese that has been in use constantly for 3 years now. This is the water dish location and they always drink and self soak here and when they drink, they dump their existing water - usually in the substrate alongside! It almost always has standing water under the dish when I change water.



Her is the exact same view with the dish and substrate pulled back - after 3 years.



There is absolutely no deterioration, bubbling, separation, etc, etc. Although a bit stained, the paint feels just as firm and smooth as when I made it.

 

[Kapidolo Farms]

@Markw84 somewhat off-topic, but is 'marine' grade plywood a better type of exterior plywood?

I hope you will make a thread regarding the PVC sandwiched foam insulation board enclosure.

 

[Markw84]

@Markw84 somewhat off-topic, but is 'marine' grade plywood a better type of exterior plywood?

I hope you will make a thread regarding the PVC sandwiched foam insulation board enclosure.

Marine grade is the best grade of plywood. It is better, and more expensive than exterior grade. With marine grade you will see smaller knots allowed in the wood and no open/filled knots are allowed. Exterior grade normally allow some knots of up to 1 1/2" but they must be filled. The interior core gaps in plywood (for expansion) are also much smaller in marine grade. The wood used must be at least a "B" grade wood for marine plywood. Exterior uses "C" grade - which is still good wood. Both use a waterproof adhesive.

So Marine grade would be a better enclosure material. Not sure if its worth the extra money as exterior is also a very good material.

 

[mrnewberry]

Thanks for the info. If you have anything else feel free to post it up. I am still a while away from building a new enclosure and may make an intermediate size before making the full sized enclosures. Also, I am still curious as to how many adults tortoises can go in a 4x8 enclosure.

 

[mrnewberry]

It looks like the time is here. I am about to be overrun with a mix of enclosures. I am going to get started on probably two stacked enclosures. Although, it would be nice if I could end up with a triple stack. Likely 4x8 and I am planning on using pvc. Any tips would be appreciated and I would love to see more photos of indoor enclosures!

 

[turtlesteve]

I really love these enclosures. I will add a couple ideas to the mix:

I am starting to use industrial and hydroponics containers. There are tons of sizes available. They can be incorporated into closed chambers if desired, and the substrate can be as deep and wet as needed. The tanks shown here are 4’ square and 5’x9’. I am in the process of enclosing the 4x4 tanks (glass sliding doors not yet installed).






These were previously saltwater coral tanks hence the plumbing and LED fixtures. I am keeping the lights as they will allow me to do indoor enclosures that are fully planted with weeds and grasses that want full sun.

 

[mrnewberry]

I really love these enclosures. I will add a couple ideas to the mix:

I am starting to use industrial and hydroponics containers. There are tons of sizes available. They can be incorporated into closed chambers if desired, and the substrate can be as deep and wet as needed. The tanks shown here are 4’ square and 5’x9’. I am in the process of enclosing the 4x4 tanks (glass sliding doors not yet installed).

View attachment 300453

View attachment 300454

View attachment 300455
These were previously saltwater coral tanks hence the plumbing and LED fixtures. I am keeping the lights as they will allow me to do indoor enclosures that are fully planted with weeds and grasses that want full sun.

Cool idea!

 

[mrnewberry]

I am eyeballing the animal plastics t70 which is 8’ long, 3’ deep, and 2‘ tall with the intention of stacking them three high. Does this seem adequate? In one of the units I would either make cut outs and sink one or more tubs or see about making one of the cages maybe 8-12” taller to accommodate a deeper nesting area. Does this sound reasonable? How deep does a nesting area need to be? @Sterant @Tom @Markw84

 

[Tom]

I am eyeballing the animal plastics t70 which is 8’ long, 3’ deep, and 2‘ tall with the intention of stacking them three high. Does this seem adequate? In one of the units I would either make cut outs and sink one or more tubs or see about making one of the cages maybe 8-12” taller to accommodate a deeper nesting area. Does this sound reasonable? How deep does a nesting area need to be? @Sterant @Tom @Markw84

All of that seems reasonable. Mine live outside so I've never had to deal with nesting boxes. Being smaller tortoises, I don't think their nests would be much deeper than 8 or 9 inches. I'm trying to remember the depth from when I actually measured... I think an 11-12 inch deep nest box would be enough and they would be unlikely to hit bottom.

Found the thread with actual platynota nest depth measurements. The first pics are of a SA leopard nest. These are 40 pound animals. The platynota nest info is farther down:

Tortoise Nest Temperature Data Collection

I'm pleased to announce an "experiment" that I've been interested in for a long time. Everyone seems to have trouble artificially incubating South African tortoise species, yet the babies seem to have no trouble hatching out of the ground after 12-18 months in any variety of "Mediterranean"...

tortoiseforum.org

 

[mrnewberry]

All of that seems reasonable. Mine live outside so I've never had to deal with nesting boxes. Being smaller tortoises, I don't think their nests would be much deeper than 8 or 9 inches. I'm trying to remember the depth from when I actually measured... I think an 11-12 inch deep nest box would be enough and they would be unlikely to hit bottom.

Found the thread with actual platynota nest depth measurements. The first pics are of a SA leopard nest. These are 40 pound animals. The platynota nest info is farther down:

Tortoise Nest Temperature Data Collection

I'm pleased to announce an "experiment" that I've been interested in for a long time. Everyone seems to have trouble artificially incubating South African tortoise species, yet the babies seem to have no trouble hatching out of the ground after 12-18 months in any variety of "Mediterranean"...

tortoiseforum.org

All of that seems reasonable. Mine live outside so I've never had to deal with nesting boxes. Being smaller tortoises, I don't think their nests would be much deeper than 8 or 9 inches. I'm trying to remember the depth from when I actually measured... I think an 11-12 inch deep nest box would be enough and they would be unlikely to hit bottom.

Found the thread with actual platynota nest depth measurements. The first pics are of a SA leopard nest. These are 40 pound animals. The platynota nest info is farther down:

Tortoise Nest Temperature Data Collection

I'm pleased to announce an "experiment" that I've been interested in for a long time. Everyone seems to have trouble artificially incubating South African tortoise species, yet the babies seem to have no trouble hatching out of the ground after 12-18 months in any variety of "Mediterranean"...

tortoiseforum.org

Thank you for your input! Your triple stack thread will probably also come in handy for ordering if I do in fact go this direction.

 

[Markw84]

I am eyeballing the animal plastics t70 which is 8’ long, 3’ deep, and 2‘ tall with the intention of stacking them three high. Does this seem adequate? In one of the units I would either make cut outs and sink one or more tubs or see about making one of the cages maybe 8-12” taller to accommodate a deeper nesting area. Does this sound reasonable? How deep does a nesting area need to be? @Sterant @Tom @Markw84

I think you will find the 24" tall is too short for adult platynota. By the time you get 3-4" of substrate and then hang a basking light, for example, you have about 12" of clearance left. A walking medium sized female is 7-8" tall. I use a 30" height for all the enclosures I build and sell as a minimum height I will recommend for any size tortoise.

Here's a stack 3 high of 30" tall 8x3 enclosures I have in my tortoise room. I can see in the top enclosure standing there, but need to step stool to reach the back of that enclosure:



I have kept my laying females indoors for the last 2 winters now while laying eggs. 4 adult females in the 8x4 enclosure I posted in this thread towards the beginning. It worked, but was cramped. When some females were laying I often took the others out as they would constantly walk over the nest the other was digging. Especially if I was in the room as they are very friendly and always get very active and try to get to me if they can see me.

As I noted in the post about the nesting chamber build, the substrate is 10" deep and the females often reach the bottom to the tub when digging their nest. It doesn't stop them as they just widen out the hole and lay the eggs there in a wider format. The bottom of the nest when a decent size female lays outside is about 12" or a little more deep.

I am very happy with the PVC enclosures I am now building, and have even build a few with a much higher profile and a corespondingly higher litter dam to accomodate any depth substrate.