Boy or Girl- desperate for an answer!

[gill2307]

Hi, I have two Harmann tortoises, which are believed to be around ten years old, due to their size, and I've had them for nearly six years.
Recently I took them to be sexed, but no one has been able to give me a definite answer. Looking at everything on the internet, they both have large tails, they both have shells, which twist under at the ends, hinting that they are both male. However, one of them laid eggs last year. They both take it turns to mount each other, and occasionally, they will bite each other's legs. If anyone can help, I'd be extremely grateful, as no one seems to know!

Pictures are below...

Mildred, who we believed to be the possible female, she is slightly larger

Ernie, who we believed to be the male, slightly smaller.



Thanks!
Gill x

 

[Tom]

I'll let someone who breeds these confirm their sex for you, but you really ought to either separate them, or get a couple more females to make a groups that might get along after a quarantine period. You also need to change that substrate and Ernie needs a beak trim. I know this is not what you asked, but I'm trying to be helpful.

 

[Yvonne G]

It's just hard to see Ernie's tail. He just might be female too. What I told you on your other thread still hold true. Ernie is the submissive tortoise and is trying to stay out of the other tortoise's way.

 

[gill2307]

I'll try and get another shot of Ernie's tail...

 

[gill2307]

Thanks for your help and guidance. The substrate we have is what was recommended to us by our local pet shops, we spray it regularly to keep it damp, and it is only the top layer, below is a layer of soil and the base is a layer of sand.
We are aware of his beak. When we bought him, it was longer then, compared to the other ones, so originally thought nothing of it.

Can any vet file it down, or does it have to be a specialist?

Thanks

 

[HermanniChris]

Mildred is certainly female and Ernie may be as well. Need to see a better shot of the tail.

 

[gill2307]

Tried to get a better picture of Ernie's tail, hope these can be of more use... I've put two below, both of the same tortoise.
Thanks again for everyone's help

 

[HermanniChris]

Ernie really appears to be a girl too. Would be nice to see the tail pointed outright but Probably isn't necessary. What can throw someone off is the trapezoidal shape of this tortoise which is typically assigned to males. However, there are females with the same shape and they are not uncommon. We have several like that in our own collection.

 

[gill2307]

What is the difference in the tails, between male and female?

 

[Yvonne G]

Males tails are bigger and fatter.

 

[gill2307]

Extended tail

 

[ZEROPILOT]

That's a boy! Or am I wrong again?

 

[gill2307]

Poor Ernie, maybe he can be a bit of both!

 

[ZEROPILOT]

Longer tail with slit is a male. Fatter tail with a star shaped anus is female, right.

 

[HermanniChris]

Ernie is without a doubt, a female. No question about it.

 

[gill2307]

Thanks, I had a look at a picture on another post, and looking at the star shape, which I now see, she may be the one who laid the eggs. Is there any particular reason why she displays male behaviour? She has mounted Mildred again this morning, and she squeaks!

I'm so pleased to have a confident answer.
Thank you

 

[gill2307]

 

[HermanniChris]

The "male" behavior is common in female tortoises. They will bite, ram, mount and even emit the squeaking sound while gaping their mouths just like males. Most female T. hermanni do this when they are gravid but they will also exhibit this behavior when kept in small quarters causing them to become aggressive towards one another.

 

[gill2307]

Thank you.

It's nice to talk to people, who know what they're talking about!