Blackfish is a Lie

Tom

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We've discussed this film and the horrible actions of animal rights groups here many times. This film was lauded by many as an exposure of terrible animal abuse. Turns out much of it was a lie. A manipulation. A tool to play upon people's emotions. Many people fell for it, I'm sad to say. Here is a glimpse of the truth of it:

The animal rights movement is the enemy of those who love animals. Don't be fooled.
 

Blakem

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Interesting, it’s too bad that it hasn’t been advertised that it was not real.
 

Cowboy_Ken

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Lately?????
Networks all have bills that need to be paid and going for flashy stories, real or otherwise, bring in sponsorship to pay those bills. Always remember, “The Martian’s are Coming”. most all the country fell for that one.
 

theguy67

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Very interesting. It's all about sensationalism in media. Animal Planet did it with their mermaid "documentary", and Discovery followed with their Megaladon "program" during shark week.

I'll admit, although I was aware Black Fish was slanted, I kinda fell for it. And although I think there's still a lot that needs to be discussed about keeping cetaceans in captivity, I don't think many who express their opinion about marine parks (and zoos in general) are qualified to do so.

The really interesting point of view would be the consensus among biologists.
 

Cowboy_Ken

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And although I think there's still a lot that needs to be discussed about keeping cetaceans in captivity, I don't think many who express their opinion about marine parks (and zoos in general) are qualified to do so.
The really interesting point of view would be the consensus among biologists.
Im betting Dr. John C. Lilly (Dr. John Cunningham Lilly (January 6, 1915 – September 30, 2001) was an American physician, neuroscientist, psychoanalyst, psychonaut, philosopher, writer and inventor.)
Would have had plenty of valuable input regarding cetaceans in general and their intelligence specifically.
 

theguy67

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Im betting Dr. John C. Lilly (Dr. John Cunningham Lilly (January 6, 1915 – September 30, 2001) was an American physician, neuroscientist, psychoanalyst, psychonaut, philosopher, writer and inventor.)
Would have had plenty of valuable input regarding cetaceans in general and their intelligence specifically.

I'm not super familiar with his work, but I know it was controversial for some.

My main issue is with people who have zero scientific training, but a large audience, spouting their opinions on subjects such as these. Whoopi Goldberg is a fine example, from the video in Tom's original post.
 

wellington

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I'd like to see a totally independent do research on what is real and what isn't.
So far you have PETA making it look like sea world is bad.
Now you have sea world saying/showing they aren't.
Of course they aren't going to make themselves look bad.
Just saying, it's both sides claiming their right.
Now I have no idea who is right and who isn't. So far I just see two sides justifying their own agenda.
 

theguy67

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I'd like to see a totally independent do research on what is real and what isn't.
So far you have PETA making it look like sea world is bad.
Now you have sea world saying/showing they aren't.
Of course they aren't going to make themselves look bad.
Just saying, it's both sides claiming their right.
Now I have no idea who is right and who isn't. So far I just see two sides justifying their own agenda.

I think you just summed up the problem with the world...Someone says something, a group believes it, the other side tries to offer a rebuttal, people begin responding with their emotions, etc. It's something I like to call the "Fan Syndrome". I've first observed this at sporting events. People come to a...lets say, high school foot ball game. The ref makes a call some parents don't like. The other side sees them acting like animals. A rivalry is born. Humans are very social creatures, and this syndrome as I call it, is summarized by the desire of people to surround themselves by those with a like mind, especially in the presence of a common enemy. You can see it everywhere: sports, politics, clubs, forums, and even with comic books.

I'm getting off topic there, so I'm going to return back to the subject lol.

Either way, I think we can all agree that Sea World does a lot of good. Without zoos and parks, many kids would never see a whale, or elephant. There wouldn't be as much interest in preservation of the environment, just like the video states.

The reason why I'm curious of the scientific consensus is because I remember sitting in on a lecture for marine mammals, and the speaker would not answer questions about Sea World. I'm pretty sure she was against whales in captivity. So I guess I'm wanting the same thing as you, Wellington. Just from a specific perspective. If there is controversy, even in the scientific community, why is it there? What side is right? A big problem we run into is ethics, and everyone's differing views and beliefs on what suffering is and isn't. You can't really define what is specifically ethical. It's more of a general consensus.
 

kevantheman35

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I’ve worked in the zoo and Aquarium world for the last 10 years until recently. Among the industry this documentary is thought of as a joke.
 

Tom

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I’ve worked in the zoo and Aquarium world for the last 10 years until recently. Among the industry this documentary is thought of as a joke.

Yeah, A joke that is turning the tide of public opinion (Completely emotional based unfounded public opinion..) against a lot of good people doing good work with animals for the betterment of people and animals.

BTW, your pic isn't showing. Jus that little meter diagram from photo bucket.
 

Tom

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My main issue is with people who have zero scientific training, but a large audience, spouting their opinions on subjects such as these. Whoopi Goldberg is a fine example, from the video in Tom's original post.

Seems to be the trend lately. Everyone is entitled to their opinion, even when they have zero experience or knowledge to base it on, while the people who actually have their hands in the work, are shouted down or ignored. Troubled times we live in...
 

theguy67

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Seems to be the trend lately. Everyone is entitled to their opinion, even when they have zero experience or knowledge to base it on, while the people who actually have their hands in the work, are shouted down or ignored. Troubled times we live in...

True. However, I will say opinions are not all equal. What our teachers taught us in elementary school that opinions are neither right or wrong, to me, is not entirely accurate. An opinion supported by fact and experience trumps that with out. BUT actors and celebrities get more time in front of the camera. People enjoy them in their movies, so they enjoy seeing them on talk shows. Unfortunately many people do not enjoy science, so they do not take the time to try and understand the subject before formulating an opinion.
 

Tom

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True. However, I will say opinions are not all equal. What our teachers taught us in elementary school that opinions are neither right or wrong, to me, is not entirely accurate. An opinion supported by fact and experience trumps that with out. BUT actors and celebrities get more time in front of the camera. People enjoy them in their movies, so they enjoy seeing them on talk shows. Unfortunately many people do not enjoy science, so they do not take the time to try and understand the subject before formulating an opinion.
I agree.

Some people formulate their opinions with emotions and feelings, in the absence, ignorance of facts. Unfortunately, these people too often have a lofty platform from which to share their unfounded and often incorrect opinions.
 

Cowboy_Ken

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I agree.

Some people formulate their opinions with emotions and feelings, in the absence, ignorance of facts. Unfortunately, these people too often have a lofty platform from which to share their unfounded and often incorrect opinions.

Hold on a spell here Mr. Tom. Isn’t the very essence of your post as well as the post that you yourself are in fact quote-posting overall an opinion? ; ) (Disclaimer; for those unaware, Tom and myself are good, goofy friends that have a tendency to flick each other SH__T and this should be read under that it should please be read with this in mind.)
 

Tom

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Hold on a spell here Mr. Tom. Isn’t the very essence of your post as well as the post that you yourself are in fact quote-posting overall an opinion? ; ) (Disclaimer; for those unaware, Tom and myself are good, goofy friends that have a tendency to flick each other SH__T and this should be read under that it should please be read with this in mind.)

No Sir. I am reporting the fact the this character assassinating film is a pack of lies intended to manipulate people's emotions and hurt the people the film makers don't like.

It is my opinion that SeaWorld is a wonderful place, though no more perfect than any other place, and that they do amazing work there. My opinion is based on facts that I have witnessed first hand and also upon facts gathered from former and current employees of the facility in question.
 

wellington

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No Sir. I am reporting the fact the this character assassinating film is a pack of lies intended to manipulate people's emotions and hurt the people the film makers don't like.

It is my opinion that SeaWorld is a wonderful place, though no more perfect than any other place, and that they do amazing work there. My opinion is based on facts that I have witnessed first hand and also upon facts gathered from former and current employees of the facility in question.
Tom, isn't Sea World just doing the same thing the film did? Defending their side?
Of course Sea World is going to say it's fake, made up, blah, blah, blah and the same with the makers of the film.
In these kinds of situations, a side would be more believable with an independent proving what really is the truth.
Btw, I love Zoos and Aquariums. I do think they are a good place to educate, inform, and to grab people's emotions to care more about the animals. I also wish faster and better improvements were made on a lot of them. I also hope Sea World is telling the truth. However, it's just their word against the others word. An independent could really work
miracles.
 

Tom

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Tom, isn't Sea World just doing the same thing the film did? Defending their side?
Of course Sea World is going to say it's fake, made up, blah, blah, blah and the same with the makers of the film.
In these kinds of situations, a side would be more believable with an independent proving what really is the truth.
Btw, I love Zoos and Aquariums. I do think they are a good place to educate, inform, and to grab people's emotions to care more about the animals. I also wish faster and better improvements were made on a lot of them. I also hope Sea World is telling the truth. However, it's just their word against the others word. An independent could really work
miracles.

No. Not the same thing at all. Sea World is pointing out facts. Did you not watch the video I posted? The phony film says the mother is crying and soooooo sad about her baby being taken away, and the commenters are just devastated… The whale they show: 1. Isn't the mother of the baby, 2. Is at an entirely different facility, and 3. Killer Whales don't even make the fake sounds the film inserted to play upon people's emotional sympathy for the poor bereft mama whale.

Simply telling the truth and pointing out the facts when you've been falsely accused and slandered is NOT the same thing as falsely accusing and slandering someone.

If I accused a family member of yours of rape and murder and made a fake film all about it full of lies, distortions, and slander, would you consider it my side against your side doing the same thing when you tried to tell people it wasn't true? When you told people I was a liar, the whole thing was phony, and the film I made was a fake, would that just be you "defending your side"?

Another example: What If I stole your TV. The police find it in my house and you claim its yours. I simply tell the police that its my TV and you are lying. Are we just two people defending our sides? Or is one of us a crooked lying thief, and the other a victim of theft?

This isn't about two innocent parties each telling their side of the same story. This is about one group who is extremely dedicated to conservation, education, and the preservation of the oceans realm, who and employees thousands of people that devote their entire lives to these amazing animals and the ocean environment being viciously, fraudulently and wrongfully attacked by a left wing whacko group who will lie, cheat, steal, vandalize, burn down buildings, and more to accomplish the goal of furthering their agenda, and they do it with $80 million in donations from people who have been deceived and had their money hustled out from under them by these phonies.

Its the job of Animal Rights groups to destroy the lives of people who work with animals. The people who work with animals just want to go to work and earn an honest living doing what they love. Its a one sided fight. No one is fighting back on the side of the animal people. We have jobs. We aren't lying to people to cheat them out of millions of dollars so we can spend every day with our team of lawyers thinking of new and creative ways to slander and bankrupt animal rights groups. Many people realize what is going on, but no one seems to want to do anything about it. So we suffer wave after wave of attacks, like this horrid movie, and we do what we can to fight back. The truth is on our side, but the money and time sure isn't.
 

wellington

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I did watch your video. I don't see proof that it's fake. I see Sea World saying it's fake. Where's the proof, other then Sea World's words?
Sea Worlds words won't change minds/opinions, but proof will, an independents, with no stake in the game proof.
If you stole my tv and you told the police it was yours, when I'm saying it's mine, the police are going to want proof to determine who is telling the truth. Receipt, serial number, a picture of it in the house from the past, something. Small matter, so not a lot at stake really compared to the Blackfish story. The Blackfish story has bigger stakes up for grabs. Bigger stacks makes one or both sides pull out every trick possible to be the winner. With technology today, just about anything can be made to look true. However, with this technology, is also technology to prove which is fake/tampered with and which as never been altered. Cheap, I'm sure not. However, with such big stakes, it would be worth the wager for the hiring of the independent to settle it once and for all with proof, not just words.
 
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