"Better then buying GOLD"

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voodoochild

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I seen this on Kingsnake.com. Could this be true? Say: "They go up in value about 700.00 a year as they get bigger.... ". Ive read they lay several clutches of 12-15 eggs per year. So maybe 50 eggs a year per female? That would be over 50,000 a year for each breeding female. Why wouldnt everyone be doing this? I must be missing something, right? I dont know how much an adult pair of Aldabras go for but I would assume they couldnt be more than 50,000. By my calculations that's a pretty good return on investment. I am a finacial advisor and my clients would love to make 5000 a year on a 50000 investment and this would mean a 50,000 annual return on 50,000. Please set me straight.
 

Edna

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I don't own, breed, buy or sell aldabras. I do know that in very general terms, breeding-for-profit schemes work out a lot better on paper than they do in real life.
 

Neal

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As a financial adviser you probably understand that if it were really that easy, everyone would do it. The fact is, is that it's not that easy. There's food and housing costs and considerations, let alone the upfront cost of purchasing adult pairs if they are ever available. Even at that point, tortoises just don't pop out eggs. They need a lot of nourishment and time invested. Maybe over a long period of time you would really see a solid ROI, but I think the time commitment makes it not worth it for a lot of people.
 

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You've counted your chickens before they hatched. All this sounds great in theory and in a perfect world, but it doesn't ever go that way. It takes many years to raise them to adult hood. Many of them die along the way from predators, disease, accidents, freak weather, etc... When they do reach adult hood, many of them never breed and no one knows why. 50 eggs in a year is an overestimate. 20 viable eggs that actually hatch is more realistic from a good female in a perfect scenario. Once you get the eggs, you need 3 solid months of nothing going wrong to get hatchlings. No power failures, no ants or other bugs, gotta maintain perfect humidity and temps, no freaky hot or cold weather extremes, etc... And for this species it really helps if you live in an area that closely mimics their native habitat. They don't tend to do as well in areas like CA or AZ where it is pretty dry with no humidity and little rain.

If it WERE as easy as it seemed, I DO think many more people would be doing it.
 

voodoochild

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I figured it was too good to be true. Everyone on here would be rich! haha!
 

TheTortoiseWhisperer

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voodoochild said:
I seen this on Kingsnake.com. Could this be true? Say: "They go up in value about 700.00 a year as they get bigger.... ". Ive read they lay several clutches of 12-15 eggs per year. So maybe 50 eggs a year per female? That would be over 50,000 a year for each breeding female. Why wouldnt everyone be doing this? I must be missing something, right? I dont know how much an adult pair of Aldabras go for but I would assume they couldnt be more than 50,000. By my calculations that's a pretty good return on investment. I am a finacial advisor and my clients would love to make 5000 a year on a 50000 investment and this would mean a 50,000 annual return on 50,000. Please set me straight.
I'm no math wizz but here are a few other things I think you should consider---> you need to accommodate for two Aldabras which means you need A LOT of secure land, enclosures with special lighting and heat just to name a few, rumor has it that there are ONLY two successful Aldabra breeders in the country one of them is Aldabraman AKA Greg and if I remember correctly, I believe I read in one of his posts or his profile that it's been his passion and life long commitment since he was practically a kid and please don't take my word for it but I'm guessing their care, maintenance and nutrition can not be something you can take care of on your days off and finally and only theoretically speaking---> in a perfect world all of those MONEY MAKING hatchling would go to people like Aldabraman or a suitable zoo, but in the real world the larger percentage of them would suffer and live like they were never meant to live but like I said before, I'm no wizz on the subject I just happen to truly love tortoises and most other animals so I personally think it's a bad idea.
 

voodoochild

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And I am just speaking out of curiosity. Obviously 50,000 a year for each female would not be possible but what about 5,000? I have no idea what a pair goes for but again I would assume it couldnt be more than 50,000. So a pair for 50k you net 5k a year? Is that possible? Thats still a 10% return and if youre going to keep torts for fun anyway it doesnt seem that bad.
 

Neal

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It's definitely possible. But the 10% return doesn't take into consideration other costs, as mentioned above, which would bring it down quite a bit.
 

TylerStewart

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Neal said:
It's definitely possible. But the 10% return doesn't take into consideration other costs, as mentioned above, which would bring it down quite a bit.
Exactly right.... I also think it requires a very suitable climate. I have already passed on the idea of keeping them because I love Las Vegas too much to leave for some Aldabras :)

Also, you could easily spend $50K on an adult pair, and having an adult pair is far far far from a guarantee that you'll get eggs to hatch. I can think of a lot of ways to turn $50K investment into a $5K return each year that would be a lot "safer bet" than a pair of Aldabras.
 

voodoochild

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TylerStewart said:
Neal said:
It's definitely possible. But the 10% return doesn't take into consideration other costs, as mentioned above, which would bring it down quite a bit.
Exactly right.... I also think it requires a very suitable climate. I have already passed on the idea of keeping them because I love Las Vegas too much to leave for some Aldabras :)

Also, you could easily spend $50K on an adult pair, and having an adult pair is far far far from a guarantee that you'll get eggs to hatch. I can think of a lot of ways to turn $50K investment into a $5K return each year that would be a lot "safer bet" than a pair of Aldabras.
Well, why you holding back? Housing market is in the can, the S&P has been flat for 10 years and interest rates are at an all time low. I am not serriously thinking about breeding Aldabras I just had to ask the question after seeing that add but if you do have a safe investement returing 10% year in and year out I'd love to hear about it.
 

TylerStewart

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voodoochild said:
Well, why you holding back? Housing market is in the can, the S&P has been flat for 10 years and interest rates are at an all time low. I am not serriously thinking about breeding Aldabras I just had to ask the question after seeing that add but if you do have a safe investement returing 10% year in and year out I'd love to hear about it.
Well, for example, you could put $50K into a "herd" of almost any other species and make more than $5K per year with significantly less risk of failure (with more males and females, having a few "duds" won't hurt your ability to still make babies). I like aldabras, I just don't think they'd breed well here in the desert. We have the same problem with all tropical species, but it's easier to set up tropical species if they're small in physical size. It'd cost a fortune to set up aldabras here in Vegas in the way it would take to potentially breed them (massive greenhouse with huge heating and cooling costs).

Send me $50K, and I'll send you $5K per year until the day you die :)
 

Yvonne G

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And don't forget the $10,000 that Greg just spent to build a barn for his Aldabrans.
 

droogievesch

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I think somebody brought up a really good point, who would you sell the hatchlings to? It's only making you money if you sell the product. Most people are not suitably set up to house Aldabras. Are you willing to sell a hatchling to somebody where there's a huge chance it will die from improper care?

Another point is supply and demand. The price of these animals is based on the fact there isn't a lot available in the market. If you get lucky and land on a laying/hatching gold mine the cost of the hatchlings will go down as their numbers increase, but the cost of housing them will go up as inflation continues. If you hatch out 10 hatchlings and they don't sell, are you prepared to house 2 breeding adults and 10 little ones? What happens when you're sitting on these to sell and next thing you know you have 20, 30, even 40 little ones?

Another thing to think about is where you're getting that breeding pair from. Are they captive bred? Are they captive hatched? Are they wild caught? Both captive hatched and wild caught are putting a strain on our natural resources (I don't think anybody would argue with me that the best place for these animals is in the wild).
 

EricIvins

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I guess I'll go against everyone and agree that investing in Aldabras is a very solid, profitable investment........Why? Because they will always have equity.......

Worst case scenario, you'll break even if you don't want to put the work into selling them........Best case, it can be very profitable.......I have a running list of individuals that want Aldabras over the 8" range, and these people are willing to pay a premium for these animals.......Aldabras and Galops are mystical creatures to most people, and some of those individuals do not care how much they have to pay to own one.......

I for one will start investing in Aldabras later this year, and will consider that my retirement when it comes to it.......
 

voodoochild

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TylerStewart said:
voodoochild said:
Well, why you holding back? Housing market is in the can, the S&P has been flat for 10 years and interest rates are at an all time low. I am not serriously thinking about breeding Aldabras I just had to ask the question after seeing that add but if you do have a safe investement returing 10% year in and year out I'd love to hear about it.
Well, for example, you could put $50K into a "herd" of almost any other species and make more than $5K per year with significantly less risk of failure (with more males and females, having a few "duds" won't hurt your ability to still make babies). I like aldabras, I just don't think they'd breed well here in the desert. We have the same problem with all tropical species, but it's easier to set up tropical species if they're small in physical size. It'd cost a fortune to set up aldabras here in Vegas in the way it would take to potentially breed them (massive greenhouse with huge heating and cooling costs).

Send me $50K, and I'll send you $5K per year until the day you die :)
Oh I see what you're saying now. But I am not in the desert just for the record.
 

droogievesch

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EricIvins said:
I guess I'll go against everyone and agree that investing in Aldabras is a very solid, profitable investment........Why? Because they will always have equity.......

Worst case scenario, you'll break even if you don't want to put the work into selling them........Best case, it can be very profitable.......I have a running list of individuals that want Aldabras over the 8" range, and these people are willing to pay a premium for these animals.......Aldabras and Galops are mystical creatures to most people, and some of those individuals do not care how much they have to pay to own one.......

I for one will start investing in Aldabras later this year, and will consider that my retirement when it comes to it.......
I think you'd agree though that this isn't something that EVERYONE who can afford it should be doing. It takes a lot to properly house and care for them. For the people who have the time, space, correct husbandry/environmental conditions it may be feasible. For every other Tom, ****, and Harry though it's a bad idea.
 

Neal

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droogievesch said:
I think you'd agree though that this isn't something that EVERYONE who can afford it should be doing. It takes a lot to properly house and care for them. For the people who have the time, space, correct husbandry/environmental conditions it may be feasible. For every other Tom, ****, and Harry though it's a bad idea.
I wouldn't say that it's a bad idea necessarily, but you're right that it's probably not for just anyone.

I just can't see this as being a lucrative of an investment as it appears on paper to just anyone, as someone else said. There is so much more to consider than just the cost of the breeding pairs and the gross revenue from the hatchlings. There is a variable level of risk to consider depending on your experience with tortoises too, the adults could become sick and die, or they could simply be duds. Maybe over time, I could see someone like Eric turning this into a profitable investment, but he would be among just a few I think.
 

voodoochild

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EricIvins said:
I guess I'll go against everyone and agree that investing in Aldabras is a very solid, profitable investment........Why? Because they will always have equity.......

Worst case scenario, you'll break even if you don't want to put the work into selling them........Best case, it can be very profitable.......I have a running list of individuals that want Aldabras over the 8" range, and these people are willing to pay a premium for these animals.......Aldabras and Galops are mystical creatures to most people, and some of those individuals do not care how much they have to pay to own one.......

I for one will start investing in Aldabras later this year, and will consider that my retirement when it comes to it.......
I'd have to think you're right. I figured my calculation of 50k a yr per female had to be way high. But I wouldn't put all your torts in one basket. Diversification in retirement is the key. [hr]
Are you wondering why Eric is holdin out on you Aldabraman?
 
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