Best substrate for sulcatas?

KiitsuneFoxx

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I've done a lot of research but all the information is very contradicting. I am currently using eco-earth (coco coir) as substrate. I find it to be quite dusty and very messy. My sulcata always ends up getting the coir into the water dish creating a mess (so I have to keep changing the water) and it also gets on the food so I worry about it causing problems. I see lots of people on threads and websites saying that the best substrate for tortoises is a mix of play sand with topsoil/loam/coco coir but then many say sand is a definite no-no as it can cause impaction. I also see a lot of people recommend cypress mulch but it looks very sharp. Could it possibly injure my sulcata and give it splinters or something? What substrate should I change it to or should I just keep the coco coir?
 

Tom

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Hello and welcome to the forum.

After decades of trial and error, I've come to the conclusion that fine grade orchid bark works best for sulcatas.

Coir is okay, but its messy, as you noted. Also, if its dusty, that means you've got it too dry.

Sand should not be used because it is an impaction risk and possible skin and eye irritant.

Store bought soil in a bag should not be used because there is no way to know what composted material it is made of.

Cypress is also okay, but I find the pieces too large and it smells swampy, which is where it came from. I had to rinse and clean the cypress mulch before I could use it and that took hours and wasted a tremendous amount of water.

Please give these a read through:
http://www.tortoiseforum.org/threads/how-to-raise-a-healthy-sulcata-or-leopard-version-2-0.79895/
http://www.tortoiseforum.org/threads/beginner-mistakes.45180/
http://www.tortoiseforum.org/threads/for-those-who-have-a-young-sulcata.76744/

There is a lot of wrong info circulating around out there for this species. "Research" usually leaves people feeling frustrated. Pet stores are notoriously bad sources of info and most breeders start this species all wrong and still don't realize that the old "desert" info was wrong.

I hope we can help you and your tortoise sort through this mess of misinformation.
 

KiitsuneFoxx

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Is any fine grade orchid bark okay or does it have to be a specific brand/kind? I'm looking online for orchid bark for reptiles and all I see is things like Repti-Bark which is fir bark. Is it the same or is it something else? I can't seem to find orchid bark specifically marketed as reptile substrate. Does that mean the only way to get it is to get it from somewhere that sells gardening materials such as Lowe's or Home Depot? You mentioned store bought soil isn't safe but is store bought orchid bark safe? Do you have any brand recommendations or links to good places to get it online?

I have read the threads you linked. I knew coco coir is okay too but I just wanted something less messy. You mentioned that my coco coir is probably too dry. I was also wondering how to keep it moist? I mist it multiple times a day but it just seems to dry out really fast again. It is also even messier when the coco coir is wet because it just sticks to my sulcata who ends up putting the coir everywhere, in the water, in the food.

Yes. I'm glad to join. It is definitely a lot better to have tortoise experts and fellow tortoise owners reply and help me rather than looking up old threads that contain such contradicting information and getting more confused!
 

JoesMum

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You make any substrate moist by tipping in water from a jug and mixing it with your hands. Keep adding water a little at a time until all the substrate is evenly damp.

Misting with water from a plant spray bottle helps to slow the rate at which it dries out. You will need to tip more water in every few weeks.

Do buy your substrate from Lowe's, a garden store, Amazon or wherever. It doesn't need to be marketed for reptiles. It's cheaper when in isn't! And some of the reptiles have nasties like calcium bits in them that encourage the tort to eat the substrate!

What you choose is up to you, but it does to be earth or compost like. Coco coir does just fine if kept damp as it should be. Just make sure there are no additives like vermiculite or fertilisers in it.
 

KiitsuneFoxx

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If I get orchid bark, do I just use it as it is or do I have to clean it/soak it when I first get it? Do I need to boil/bake/microwave it to sterilize it?
 

Tom

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Is any fine grade orchid bark okay or does it have to be a specific brand/kind? I'm looking online for orchid bark for reptiles and all I see is things like Repti-Bark which is fir bark. Is it the same or is it something else? I can't seem to find orchid bark specifically marketed as reptile substrate. Does that mean the only way to get it is to get it from somewhere that sells gardening materials such as Lowe's or Home Depot? You mentioned store bought soil isn't safe but is store bought orchid bark safe? Do you have any brand recommendations or links to good places to get it online?

I have read the threads you linked. I knew coco coir is okay too but I just wanted something less messy. You mentioned that my coco coir is probably too dry. I was also wondering how to keep it moist? I mist it multiple times a day but it just seems to dry out really fast again. It is also even messier when the coco coir is wet because it just sticks to my sulcata who ends up putting the coir everywhere, in the water, in the food.

Yes. I'm glad to join. It is definitely a lot better to have tortoise experts and fellow tortoise owners reply and help me rather than looking up old threads that contain such contradicting information and getting more confused!

Orchid bark is fir bark. You won't find it at HD or Lowes, but you can buy it in large 2.0 cubic foot bags at any garden center for around $10.

I did not say that store bought soil isn't safe. I said there is no way to know what it is made of. If it is untreated grass clippings and dead mulberry leaves that were raked up in fall and then composted, that soil would be safe, but still messy. But it might be oleander clippings and grass recently treated with a fungicide or "weed n feed". The problem is that there is no way to know. I won't risk my tortoises health on such a guess.

Because anything labeled "orchid bark" or "fir bark" is a known thing, it should be safe. No one sprays the trunks of their fir trees with toxic chemicals, right? Also, there is no need to wash or treat the O. bark. I dump it straight from the bag into the enclosure, and then add as much water as needed. As you've already seen, spraying the surface of your substrate does very little. You have to dump water into the substrate to maintain the necessary moisture levels. How much to dump and how often varies with each enclosure and with the seasons and local weather too. If your tank is drying out quickly, then I'm guessing you also have an open topped enclosure. This will lead to pyramiding that cannot be undone. Please read the threads I linked for info on how to prevent this and also make your life easier, and your tortoises life better.
 

Markw84

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Home depot carries it here, so you might want to check your locations. http://www.homedepot.com/p/Better-Gro-8-Qt-Orchid-Bark-50190/100166665

It's just under $5 for 8 quarts. I buy it much less at a garden center here in 1 cu ft bags for $10, since there should be about 25 qts in a cu ft.

Be sure you get fine grade, and PLAIN Orchid bark, not Orchid bark mix.
 

RussianTortsNF

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Home depot carries it here, so you might want to check your locations. http://www.homedepot.com/p/Better-Gro-8-Qt-Orchid-Bark-50190/100166665

It's just under $5 for 8 quarts. I buy it much less at a garden center here in 1 cu ft bags for $10, since there should be about 25 qts in a cu ft.

Be sure you get fine grade, and PLAIN Orchid bark, not Orchid bark mix.

How much of an area would an 8 qt bag cover? I’m going to order some and wondering how many bags. I have an 81 inch area. Thinking I’ll do coco coir and orchard bark as the top layer? Im I’m WNY so I can’t find any in garden centers this time of year. Perhaps I can on amazon.
 

Markw84

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I buy 1 cu ft bags for $10. The bags is labeled 1 cu ft / 42.2 L. However, there is only 29 dry liters L in a cu ft so something is wrong with the labeling on the bag! I can say I use about 3 of those bags to do a 3' x 8' enclosure. My guess would be that I would need about 11 of the 8 quart bags to do the same thing.
 

RussianTortsNF

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I buy 1 cu ft bags for $10. The bags is labeled 1 cu ft / 42.2 L. However, there is only 29 dry liters L in a cu ft so something is wrong with the labeling on the bag! I can say I use about 3 of those bags to do a 3' x 8' enclosure. My guess would be that I would need about 11 of the 8 quart bags to do the same thing.

Thank you!! My calculations were way off. Lol
 

RussianTortsNF

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Markw84

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I have used the Home Depot one but can't remember the exact one. I remember they had one that had other additives to help plants grow - and you DON'T want that one. Be sure it is plain orchid or fir bark.

I use the 1 cu ft bags I find at a garden center here. Here is what I use

IMG_5353.JPG

@Tom uses a 2 cu ft bag he gets locally where he lives also from a garden center. This is a picture he posted of the one he gets...

Orchid Bark Tom gets.JPG

I would go to a garden center near you and see if they buy from a supplier that carries either one, giving them the brand names. If they already buy from someone who carries it, they could add it to a shipment and not have extra shipping charges to get it for you.
 

RussianTortsNF

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I have used the Home Depot one but can't remember the exact one. I remember they had one that had other additives to help plants grow - and you DON'T want that one. Be sure it is plain orchid or fir bark.

I use the 1 cu ft bags I find at a garden center here. Here is what I use

View attachment 222327

@Tom uses a 2 cu ft bag he gets locally where he lives also from a garden center. This is a picture he posted of the one he gets...

View attachment 222328

I would go to a garden center near you and see if they buy from a supplier that carries either one, giving them the brand names. If they already buy from someone who carries it, they could add it to a shipment and not have extra shipping charges to get it for you.

Thank you!! I will try again. They told me the biggest they have for any without additives is 8qts
 

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