Belgian Tortoise owner with worries

[Linneke]

Hi all,

I'm a teacher in Belgium and after lots and lots and loooots of reading and talking to specialists here in Belgium, I set everything up and bought myself a Russian Tortoise (Agrionemys horsfieldii) to come in live in my classroom. Belgian schools were in lock down from March to the summer holidays, so September 1st I went back to school with my little Shelldon. He was exactly 1 year old at that moment.
He is doing just great, growing, feeding and generally being curious about everyting inside and outside his terrarium (is this the right word in English?).
The kids love him and he is being well taken care of. The vet said he is an exemplary tortoise ;-)

3 weeks ago I was in the pet shop and saw a little friend for Shelldon who seemed very lonely... ;-) Without hesitating I bought him and brought him to school. The kids named him Rudi and he and Shelldon immediately became friendly!

But Rudi is not doing well. He is probably born last summer so still rather young. Rudi ways 26 grams (less than 1 ounce), has a 'white film' over his eyes and refuses to eat. I brought him to the vet 2 days ago who is worried as well and forcefed him hoping for a little kickstart. But it didn't work. I have been trying to warm him up extra and feeding him, but he keeps on refusing. He gave an ointment for his eyes as a secundary treatment so his eyes might open up.

I really, really want to help this little fella. Since the entire setup (food, housing, water, lamps) is apparently correct, so if anybody has any suggestion on how to help him eat to gain strength, I'm all ears.

Thanks!
Lin

 

[harrythetortoise]

Hi all,

I'm a teacher in Belgium and after lots and lots and loooots of reading and talking to specialists here in Belgium, I set everything up and bought myself a Russian Tortoise (Agrionemys horsfieldii) to come in live in my classroom. Belgian schools were in lock down from March to the summer holidays, so September 1st I went back to school with my little Shelldon. He was exactly 1 year old at that moment.
He is doing just great, growing, feeding and generally being curious about everyting inside and outside his terrarium (is this the right word in English?).
The kids love him and he is being well taken care of. The vet said he is an exemplary tortoise ;-)

3 weeks ago I was in the pet shop and saw a little friend for Shelldon who seemed very lonely... ;-) Without hesitating I bought him and brought him to school. The kids named him Rudi and he and Shelldon immediately became friendly!

But Rudi is not doing well. He is probably born last summer so still rather young. Rudi ways 26 grams (less than 1 ounce), has a 'white film' over his eyes and refuses to eat. I brought him to the vet 2 days ago who is worried as well and forcefed him hoping for a little kickstart. But it didn't work. I have been trying to warm him up extra and feeding him, but he keeps on refusing. He gave an ointment for his eyes as a secundary treatment so his eyes might open up.

I really, really want to help this little fella. Since the entire setup (food, housing, water, lamps) is apparently correct, so if anybody has any suggestion on how to help him eat to gain strength, I'm all ears.

Thanks!
Lin

Can we see some photos?
Also, if they are in the same enclosure the little one might be bullied and be deteriorating...

 

[Maggie3fan]

You simply cannot keep 2 tortoises together. They do not want or need companionship. The smaller one is being bullied, separate them immediately and set the smaller one up in your house and treat him like a patient, or he will die

 

[Linneke]

They are the same size and are really friendly towards eachother without pushing it.

Here are some photo's. The first was today, I just put Rudi back after a bath and Shelldon came over to see, but went no further than this.
The second is Rudis eye. He has this on both eyes.
The third is when Rudi just arrived so you can see their size.

Thanks!

 

[Linneke]

PS: I am working on a second home, I know they need to be split up soon enough

 

[Lyn W]

You have made the mistake that many do by thinking that tortoises need company.
Tortoises are solitary creatures and do not like or need friends.
What you are seeing is not cute, friendly behaviour it is bullying - the more dominant tort trying to get the other out of his space.
It starts with staring, following and nudging and eventually becomes more aggressive with barging, trying to tip the other tort up, and biting etc.
It s very stressful for both torts and could result in illness, injury and even death. Your tort is probably not eating because he is very stressed and unhappy.
To help your tort get better please separate them asap - for both their sakes.

 

[Lyn W]

Please read this

Why not to keep 2 tortoises together - a lesson learned the hard way

This is a copy/paste of an article I wrote on my blog last year. I've seen several new keepers ask the question of whether they should get a 'friend' for their tortoise, and so rather than keeping on linking to my blog (which feels kinda self-promoting, which is not my intent), I am creating a...

tortoiseforum.org

 

[Lyn W]

This will also help you make sure your set up, temps, substrate and humiidity etc are the best they can be for your tort.
There is a lot of old and inaccurate information still being given out abut keeping torts but you can be sure that the information on this forum is up to date and given by very experienced keepers.

The Best Way To Raise Any Temperate Species Of Tortoise

I chose the title of this care sheet very carefully. Are there other ways to raise babies and care for adults? Yes. Yes there are, but those ways are not as good. What follows is the BEST way, according to 30 years of research and experimentation with hundreds of babies of many species. What is...

tortoiseforum.org

 

[Linneke]

You have made the mistake that many do by thinking that tortoises need company.
Tortoises are solitary creatures and do not like or need friends.
What you are seeing is not cute, friendly behaviour it is bullying - the more dominant tort trying to get the other out of his space.
It starts with staring, following and nudging and eventually becomes more aggressive with barging, trying to tip the other tort up, and biting etc.
It s very stressful for both torts and could result in illness, injury and even death. As well as expensive vets bills for you.
They are not happy.
Please separate them asap for both their sakes.

Hi Lyn

Thanks for the info! I'll put them apart! But I'm pretty sure that is not the (only) reason Rudi is ill. He had swollen eyes when I got him, but do you think he'll be fine and start eating when I split them up?

 

[Lyn W]

Hi Lyn

Thanks for the info! I'll put them apart! But I'm pretty sure that is not the (only) reason Rudi is ill. He had swollen eyes when I got him, but do you think he'll be fine and start eating when I split them up?

Most people see an improvement when torts are in their own territory.
Make sure you temps day and night are warm enough too - check the caresheet for those,
Do you soak them?

 

[Yvonne G]

Welcome to the Forum, Lin!

Your tortoises need to be separated as quickly as you can set up another enclosure. Bullying isn't always seen by the keeper. Tortoises don't talk to each other visibly. Your first baby is telling the newcomer he's not wanted in the territory. This is very stressful for both animals.

Set the sick on up in a smaller, hospital tank - a 10 gallon aquarium will suffice for now. Keep the temperature in the aquarium 80-85F degrees day and night. Every morning soak the baby in 50/50 Gerber strained carrots/warm water. You can read about it here:

Gerber Carrot Baby Food Soaks

This "trick" is only for turtles and tortoises that aren't eating and have swollen shut eyes. It's not a cure-all, and unless you fix the reason why the eyes swelled shut in the first place, they're just going to swell shut again after the soaks. Using a bowl with tall sides (so the animal...

tortoiseforum.org

After about three days his eyes should be open and you can set him up in a larger enclosure, but don't put him back in with the other tortoise. Once his eyes are open he should eat.

 

[Linneke]

Yes, I soak them.
I read about the baby food, and am looking to find something simular in Belgium.
I'll go and buy a new lamp tomorrow so I can seperate them.

Thanks guys!

 

[queen koopa]

Yes, I soak them.
I read about the baby food, and am looking to find something simular in Belgium.
I'll go and buy a new lamp tomorrow so I can seperate them.

Thanks guys!

You can make your own carrot purée as well. If you have a good blender or a vitamix? You could light boil carrots first and blend them with the water they were boiled to make easier too.

 

[Ray--Opo]

Don't use the first 2 UVB bulbs. They can damage their eyes.

The best is a flouresnt tube type. Arcadia has one HO 5.0 that is commonly used.

 

[Linneke]

This morning I got to the supermarket and bought the baby carrot food.
Rudi was doing horrible, pretty lifeless.
But, I put him in the bad and a few minutes later he started to turn around, put his head up and drank as well!
After drying I put him apart with tiny bits of different foods, hoping that any favorable food would do the trick. And indeed, when I put down some broccoli, he almost attacked it!
He has been every bit of green he found for about an hour before he went to rest. One eye is even almost completely open as well!

Thank you so much!

 

[Box Turtle Tuesday]

This morning I got to the supermarket and bought the baby carrot food.
Rudi was doing horrible, pretty lifeless.
But, I put him in the bad and a few minutes later he started to turn around, put his head up and drank as well!
After drying I put him apart with tiny bits of different foods, hoping that any favorable food would do the trick. And indeed, when I put down some broccoli, he almost attacked it!
He has been every bit of green he found for about an hour before he went to rest. One eye is even almost completely open as well!

Thank you so much!

I hope he gets better. It seems that you really care about this tortoise. Good luck and I hope he gets better.

 

[Ray--Opo]

This morning I got to the supermarket and bought the baby carrot food.
Rudi was doing horrible, pretty lifeless.
But, I put him in the bad and a few minutes later he started to turn around, put his head up and drank as well!
After drying I put him apart with tiny bits of different foods, hoping that any favorable food would do the trick. And indeed, when I put down some broccoli, he almost attacked it!
He has been every bit of green he found for about an hour before he went to rest. One eye is even almost completely open as well!

Thank you so much!

This morning I got to the supermarket and bought the baby carrot food.
Rudi was doing horrible, pretty lifeless.
But, I put him in the bad and a few minutes later he started to turn around, put his head up and drank as well!
After drying I put him apart with tiny bits of different foods, hoping that any favorable food would do the trick. And indeed, when I put down some broccoli, he almost attacked it!
He has been every bit of green he found for about an hour before he went to rest. One eye is even almost completely open as well!

Thank you so much!

If the eye doesn't clear up. You might want to try some terramycin. But the carrot soaks should help.

 

[TaylorTortoise]

It also looks like you need to switch up the substrate and try using something that retains better humidity for the enclosure.
Make sure there is enough ambient lighting, it looks dark in your tank. Heating needs to be high for youngsters like yours.

 

[TaylorTortoise]

What is the sex for both of your russians? TWO males will not be good together.
Keeping them in pairs to begin with is of course stressful enough.
MY Russian guy loves having his enclosure to himself. They are solitary animals. They roam around by themselves and pretty much do eveything by themselves once they hit birth.