I want a Ball Python. I need some good enclosure ideas. Anyone proud of theirs? Post some pics.
Ball Python Set-ups?
- Thread starter Rhyno47
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Don't have one currently, but kept lots of them in the past. Keep them really hot and humid. Always worked well for me. I was frequently given the difficult feeders. They always ate just fine for me. I think most people keep them too cool.
So a warm humid sealed viv?
Not sealed, and not too humid. They need to dry out every once and awhile, other wise you will get RI and scale and mouth rot.
I keep mine on aspen, with a hide stuffed with moist moss, and I use a light right now (100W I think) but I am switching to a pad because they prefer belly heat.
I keep mine on aspen, with a hide stuffed with moist moss, and I use a light right now (100W I think) but I am switching to a pad because they prefer belly heat.
Wood chips like your greeks?
Yeah, lemme dig you up a picture. I keep my boys in a 40gal breeder. Lots of plants, hides and "stuff" and you can keep them in a big tank. You don't have to listen to people that say keep them in small enclosures. I've had them both in this since they were pretty small. Enough hides and you'll be fine. Both of mine are great eaters.
I've kept them on both eco earth (moist, then let it dry, then remoisten) and aspen. I actually like the eco better, its just a pain in the butt to expand since I need a lot to fill a 40 breeder. I will prolly switch back over to it though, it looks more natural. I found pics of both setups for you.
Eco Earth
Aspen
Spike is my Spider, Gimli is 100% het for pied, but has normal visible coloration.
I've kept them on both eco earth (moist, then let it dry, then remoisten) and aspen. I actually like the eco better, its just a pain in the butt to expand since I need a lot to fill a 40 breeder. I will prolly switch back over to it though, it looks more natural. I found pics of both setups for you.
Eco Earth
Aspen
Spike is my Spider, Gimli is 100% het for pied, but has normal visible coloration.
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Good site for all things BP related: http://www.ball-pythons.net/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=62
You can be as simple or complex as you want. They do well in plastic bins. You want belly heat, but you need to be able to measure temps and humidity levels and adjust as needed. A T-Stat is best. But I do fine with a simple rheostat.
You want a warm end with basking spot. (again, you MUST measure the temps so you can adjust as needed)
Then you want a cool end (not cold - just a temp gradient as you want with a tort or just about any critter).
BP's in the wild tend to live in burrows and termite mounds. They like it dark, snug, warm, humid, and quiet. A big glass tank in the middle of the room with one hide and a water dish is not the best. Some may do fine in that, but most will be stressed.
If you must use glass, provide LOTS of fake plans, hides, and cover the glass on most sides so the snake can move about and not feel exposed.
Also with glass, you should plan on covering about 80% of the top to help hold in the humidity. With bins, you have a solid lid roof, so you just drill holes around the sides to allow for ventilation.
With a small plastic bin or a 'rack' setup, many folks are able to avoid the need for hides and fancy decoration. The bins are small enough and dark enough that the snake is not stressed out. Some prefer this method as snake poo and pee can get quite messy at times and it is much easier to clean vs having to worry about all the substrate, plants, wood, etc. Also, pet store snakes almost always come with mites. You may not see them at first, but often within a month or so they start showing. They are easy enough to deal with (Provent-a-Mite is good stuff), but with a more complex setup, it can be harder notice, and then to clean and treat for the mites.
Many folks like a hide on the warm end and a matching hide on the cool end. They like hides that are identical (just big enough for the snake to coil up in nice and snug. If they match, you know the snake is choosing the hide based on temps and not on one that feels more secure - thus sacrificing the temps needed for proper thermoregulation and digestion... Good hides can easily be made or found - dark plastic food service type dishes work well. Plastic is easy to clean and dissinfect when needed - and easy to toss out when the snake outgrows it. Half log hides are no so good. Not good hide shape for them, and not good when the poo all over it.... Again, check out the site I noted for many different options on this as well as good caresheets that much more specific details (temps, humidity levels, etc).
You can be as simple or complex as you want. They do well in plastic bins. You want belly heat, but you need to be able to measure temps and humidity levels and adjust as needed. A T-Stat is best. But I do fine with a simple rheostat.
You want a warm end with basking spot. (again, you MUST measure the temps so you can adjust as needed)
Then you want a cool end (not cold - just a temp gradient as you want with a tort or just about any critter).
BP's in the wild tend to live in burrows and termite mounds. They like it dark, snug, warm, humid, and quiet. A big glass tank in the middle of the room with one hide and a water dish is not the best. Some may do fine in that, but most will be stressed.
If you must use glass, provide LOTS of fake plans, hides, and cover the glass on most sides so the snake can move about and not feel exposed.
Also with glass, you should plan on covering about 80% of the top to help hold in the humidity. With bins, you have a solid lid roof, so you just drill holes around the sides to allow for ventilation.
With a small plastic bin or a 'rack' setup, many folks are able to avoid the need for hides and fancy decoration. The bins are small enough and dark enough that the snake is not stressed out. Some prefer this method as snake poo and pee can get quite messy at times and it is much easier to clean vs having to worry about all the substrate, plants, wood, etc. Also, pet store snakes almost always come with mites. You may not see them at first, but often within a month or so they start showing. They are easy enough to deal with (Provent-a-Mite is good stuff), but with a more complex setup, it can be harder notice, and then to clean and treat for the mites.
Many folks like a hide on the warm end and a matching hide on the cool end. They like hides that are identical (just big enough for the snake to coil up in nice and snug. If they match, you know the snake is choosing the hide based on temps and not on one that feels more secure - thus sacrificing the temps needed for proper thermoregulation and digestion... Good hides can easily be made or found - dark plastic food service type dishes work well. Plastic is easy to clean and dissinfect when needed - and easy to toss out when the snake outgrows it. Half log hides are no so good. Not good hide shape for them, and not good when the poo all over it.... Again, check out the site I noted for many different options on this as well as good caresheets that much more specific details (temps, humidity levels, etc).
Meg90 said:
Just like the tortoises, this depends upon where you live. It cannot get TOO humid here in the SoCal high desert. No matter what I do its hard to get humidity over 50-60%. For most of the rest of the world, you are correct.
My ball python set-ups are where I perfected the art of the humid hide box. Always had clean, one-peice sheds. I used orchid bard/soil and lots of that green moss too. I had to keep it WET in there to get any humidity built up.
BTW, you have beautiful balls Meg.
Thanks Tom! I forgot to mention---I used pieces of Plexi over 2/3 of the top of the cage. I have two panels so I can move them around, or take one off as needed. Gotta feed the boys today. Maybe I'll take some pictures! Spike is high-white. He's my looker.
I'm surprised you keep your snakes together, Meg. You've always seemed to want to have the best for your animals... My point being snakes are not communal animals, and they do best when housed alone. You won't find them snuggled up together in the wild for any purpose other than breeding (and, perhaps, brumating, in some cases). In captivity, housing snakes together in close quarters can cause undue stress, makes transmission of illness/parasites unavoidable and quick, and, in the event of diarrhea/regurge/other symptom of illness/parasite/stress, you can't tell "who done it" unless you catch the snake in the act. There's always the situation of, if you have a male/female pair (with or without knowing it), the snakes breeding too early and the female suffering life-threatening complications. My focus is largely corn snakes, and I've heard all too many times of life-threatening issues in cohab situations ranging from one not eating or regurging constantly from the stress, to one eating the other for whatever reason... Ball pythons are even more prone to stress than corns, so I can only imagine the situation having the potential to be much worse than what I've heard of in reference to corns.
I don't mean any offense, of course, Meg. You may be doing this successfully, as many people do, but it's one of those things that "isn't a problem until it's a problem." Rhyno, that was for you, too--if you get more than one ball (or any other snake), don't house them together! The only benefit you get is only having to use one cage... And that should never outweigh the health and well-being of your pets.
Anyway, with that said, my two adult ball pythons do great in tubs. They're kept in 41 quart "under bed" style Sterilite tubs (though the female is due for an upgrade, as her almost 2000 gram bulk is getting to be a tight fit), with paper towel for bedding, and the simple set-up of a hide or two and a water dish (or a hide and a hide/water dish combo, as the case may be). Their heat is supplied by a heat pad--one big one stretched between the two tubs, to cover about 1/3rd of each one's bottom. The heat pad is controlled by a thermostat, set to about 90*F... And monitored primarily with the trusty temp-gun since they both seem to have something against thermometer probes, haha. Cool side is generally upper 70s/lower 80s depending on the room's temperature. Both are feeding great in this set-up, and the male has even begun giving me complete sheds! I rescued them both as extremely poorly kept adults in the last year, so any progress is HUGE to me... Even if it's "just" a complete shed. They've only been in this for a few months, though, so it's still being tweaked. The next step will probably be to put the female on a more humidity-friendly substrate (probably cypress mulch or sphagnum/soil mix, depending on what I end up settling on for the tortoise) to see if that helps with her piecemeal sheds.
This is the male's tub... Please excuse the mess; this pic was taken in a hurry earlier this month, only to discover that the tub was due for a cleaning. The water dish is hollow underneath, and, with an entrance hole cut in the side, it makes a great cool-side hide.
That forum Chad linked to is a GREAT resource for ball pythons. Definitely check it out. Here is their Ball Python care sheet: http://www.ball-pythons.net/modules/Sections/index.php?op=viewarticle&id=59
I don't mean any offense, of course, Meg. You may be doing this successfully, as many people do, but it's one of those things that "isn't a problem until it's a problem." Rhyno, that was for you, too--if you get more than one ball (or any other snake), don't house them together! The only benefit you get is only having to use one cage... And that should never outweigh the health and well-being of your pets.
Anyway, with that said, my two adult ball pythons do great in tubs. They're kept in 41 quart "under bed" style Sterilite tubs (though the female is due for an upgrade, as her almost 2000 gram bulk is getting to be a tight fit), with paper towel for bedding, and the simple set-up of a hide or two and a water dish (or a hide and a hide/water dish combo, as the case may be). Their heat is supplied by a heat pad--one big one stretched between the two tubs, to cover about 1/3rd of each one's bottom. The heat pad is controlled by a thermostat, set to about 90*F... And monitored primarily with the trusty temp-gun since they both seem to have something against thermometer probes, haha. Cool side is generally upper 70s/lower 80s depending on the room's temperature. Both are feeding great in this set-up, and the male has even begun giving me complete sheds! I rescued them both as extremely poorly kept adults in the last year, so any progress is HUGE to me... Even if it's "just" a complete shed. They've only been in this for a few months, though, so it's still being tweaked. The next step will probably be to put the female on a more humidity-friendly substrate (probably cypress mulch or sphagnum/soil mix, depending on what I end up settling on for the tortoise) to see if that helps with her piecemeal sheds.
This is the male's tub... Please excuse the mess; this pic was taken in a hurry earlier this month, only to discover that the tub was due for a cleaning. The water dish is hollow underneath, and, with an entrance hole cut in the side, it makes a great cool-side hide.
That forum Chad linked to is a GREAT resource for ball pythons. Definitely check it out. Here is their Ball Python care sheet: http://www.ball-pythons.net/modules/Sections/index.php?op=viewarticle&id=59
I've never had any problems at all with both in one tank. Ever. Both came from the same breeder, sexed male. I didn't ship, I picked both out by hand. Both eat weekly with no issue, everyone sheds, drinks, cruises. I have never had any fear of parasitation or mites from either animal.
I hate tub setups for snakes that are utilized by people who have one or two as PETS. You can't even see them to appreciate any sort of behavior at all. What's the point of even owning a snake, if you keep it in a lidded box that's frosted on all sides? I also detest the minimalistic approach. Nothing for them to climb on, no plants, no anything. Its like a mental hospital.
All of my animals live in naturalistic enclosures. The only ones without substrate being the 2g crested gecko hatchlings that can't handle living on it for fear of ingestion or impaction. I do want what is best for my animals, and I make sure its a reality. You can trot out the whole "no offense" tag at the end of your little lecture, but with an opening line like "I'm surprised you keep your snakes together, Meg. You've always seemed to want to have the best for your animals" I, along with everyone else who read that fantastic post, knows just what you meant.
Thanks.
I hate tub setups for snakes that are utilized by people who have one or two as PETS. You can't even see them to appreciate any sort of behavior at all. What's the point of even owning a snake, if you keep it in a lidded box that's frosted on all sides? I also detest the minimalistic approach. Nothing for them to climb on, no plants, no anything. Its like a mental hospital.
All of my animals live in naturalistic enclosures. The only ones without substrate being the 2g crested gecko hatchlings that can't handle living on it for fear of ingestion or impaction. I do want what is best for my animals, and I make sure its a reality. You can trot out the whole "no offense" tag at the end of your little lecture, but with an opening line like "I'm surprised you keep your snakes together, Meg. You've always seemed to want to have the best for your animals" I, along with everyone else who read that fantastic post, knows just what you meant.
Thanks.
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If you are having trouble with shed, you just need to manage humidity better. I've never had a bad shed for any snake. I use a ditigal thermometer\hygrometer that includes a digital probe to measure the basking spot\warm end, and then I place the unit on the cool end of the bin against the clear plastic side with a zip tie to hold it up (drilled holes in the plastic) - then I can see the ambient humidity, cool side temp, and basking spot temp in one view. I keep the humidity to about 50-60%, then when I see them going into shed, I bump it to 80 and leave it until a few days after they are done shedding.
Meg, you sound pretty defensive. Everyone has opinions, and yes, most keepers do agree that housing snakes together is not a good idea. It can be done, but you can't deny that it is not considered a best practice.
I also understand you opinion on prefering a 'pretty' setup. But keep in mind that the snake does not have the same aesthetic appreciaitions as you do. In the wild, the live in borrows and termite mounds. So they like it dark, small, snug, secure, warm, and humid. They are not climbers and are not high activity snakes. If they are taken out a few times a week to be handled, exercised, etc - they will thrive in the plastic bins.
Some folks consider putting a species like a BP in a display tank is selfish since that is not an ideal setup for such BPs who are more solitary and shy. Yours looks reasonable to me as you have sides covered, top covered, and lots of plants and a few hides (although 1/2 log hides are not really good BP hides).
Also, glad you are getting rid of the heat lamp. BP's can easly get burned if they touch the screen up by the light.
I think Floof has a good point - especially when discussing these things with folks who are new to BPs and might not know any better. Kinda like Maggie pointing out that my torts being together is not a good best practice.
Meg, you sound pretty defensive. Everyone has opinions, and yes, most keepers do agree that housing snakes together is not a good idea. It can be done, but you can't deny that it is not considered a best practice.
I also understand you opinion on prefering a 'pretty' setup. But keep in mind that the snake does not have the same aesthetic appreciaitions as you do. In the wild, the live in borrows and termite mounds. So they like it dark, small, snug, secure, warm, and humid. They are not climbers and are not high activity snakes. If they are taken out a few times a week to be handled, exercised, etc - they will thrive in the plastic bins.
Some folks consider putting a species like a BP in a display tank is selfish since that is not an ideal setup for such BPs who are more solitary and shy. Yours looks reasonable to me as you have sides covered, top covered, and lots of plants and a few hides (although 1/2 log hides are not really good BP hides).
Also, glad you are getting rid of the heat lamp. BP's can easly get burned if they touch the screen up by the light.
I think Floof has a good point - especially when discussing these things with folks who are new to BPs and might not know any better. Kinda like Maggie pointing out that my torts being together is not a good best practice.
Chad--Thanks for the advice! Hmm... Zip-ties... Ingenious! I might just go that route to pin down their thermometer probes! I use indoor/outdoor thermometers... I've never seen the use for hygrometers, since I've had plenty of success without with my boas and corns, but I may just pick one up for the female's tub since there have been such issues. After 10 years without a single good shed, I'm not sure the poor girl knows HOW to shed right, lol!
Well, then, Meg, I'm sorry I offended you, because I truly didn't mean to.
I can't say I'm in the least surprised that you would reply with such hostility (since, it would seem everyone who contradicts you is hostile--even if that same rule doesn't apply when you're the one contradicting others), and I'm sorry that you seem to be determined to deny and disregard my advice. I hope you continue to have no problems, for your snakes' sake.
As for the tubs, to each their own. Your balls are active.... Great. I never saw mine when they were in aquariums; they just aren't active animals. I see them more now than I used to, believe it or not, since the "tiny lidded box" and the "frosted sides" give them that vital feeling of security. Their humidity is much easier to maintain, as are their temps, and their feeding habits have gone from sporadic at best to reliable and insatiable... Sure, I can't make them as "pretty" as one can a glass enclosure, but my snakes are happier... That's the whole point, right?
You do a great job with your four-legged things, Meg, but that doesn't mean you're perfect with every animal. Please don't be so quick to judge when someone points out a potentially fatal flaw in your practices.
Well, then, Meg, I'm sorry I offended you, because I truly didn't mean to.
I can't say I'm in the least surprised that you would reply with such hostility (since, it would seem everyone who contradicts you is hostile--even if that same rule doesn't apply when you're the one contradicting others), and I'm sorry that you seem to be determined to deny and disregard my advice. I hope you continue to have no problems, for your snakes' sake.
As for the tubs, to each their own. Your balls are active.... Great. I never saw mine when they were in aquariums; they just aren't active animals. I see them more now than I used to, believe it or not, since the "tiny lidded box" and the "frosted sides" give them that vital feeling of security. Their humidity is much easier to maintain, as are their temps, and their feeding habits have gone from sporadic at best to reliable and insatiable... Sure, I can't make them as "pretty" as one can a glass enclosure, but my snakes are happier... That's the whole point, right?
You do a great job with your four-legged things, Meg, but that doesn't mean you're perfect with every animal. Please don't be so quick to judge when someone points out a potentially fatal flaw in your practices.
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Taylor - this is the unit I use.
http://www.weatherconnection.com/mfgproduct.asp?mfgname=Acu+Rite&itmky=529964&mfgno=21
Works great. You can find it at most stores like wal-mart, target, lowes, etc for 12 to 15 bucks. I use one for each of my enclosures - torts, snakes, lizards... In the pic, it shows a clock, temp 1, and humidity. But since I don't care about the time, I set it to show temp 1, temp 1, and humidity in one view. So nice to take a quick look each day and be sure all temps and humidity are right where I want them.
http://www.weatherconnection.com/mfgproduct.asp?mfgname=Acu+Rite&itmky=529964&mfgno=21
Works great. You can find it at most stores like wal-mart, target, lowes, etc for 12 to 15 bucks. I use one for each of my enclosures - torts, snakes, lizards... In the pic, it shows a clock, temp 1, and humidity. But since I don't care about the time, I set it to show temp 1, temp 1, and humidity in one view. So nice to take a quick look each day and be sure all temps and humidity are right where I want them.
chadk said:
Thanks! I'll see if I can track one down today, then, and hopefully I can work her toward a complete shed next time around. =)
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