Baby sulcata keep flipping over non stop.

Momma_cat

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New tortoise mom here I have two (2-3mo old) sulcatas. I have googled, YouTubed and read things here and I’m at a loss what to do.
I have them both in a Zoo med tortoise house that’s plenty spacious (they are about 2 oz each so very small still obviously)
I literally have everything the reptile shop said I need and have it “flip proof” as possible. The lamps , substrate hides a dark said with damp moss and more hides daily baths the whole 9 as far as I know I’m doing everything by the book.
but my one keeps flipping to the point I have a camera so I can check on them and yesterday luckily I was close to home and had to come save her. It’s always under the lights as well and that makes it stressful. I can’t sit and watch a camera non stop it’s just not possible and I work full time and travel so I’m not always close to home (I’m home daily tho) She literally will go to the corner and try to climb the wall non stop no matter what I do and just falls over eventually.
Please someone tell me the magic to get her to stop.
my only last idea is to block her to stay in the dark side when I’m not home but that seems unfair to me :( but all I think of all day is if she’s slowly dying it’s literally giving me such anxiety.

Thank you for any help
 

Karen(pebbles)

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Hi and welcome to the forum, if you post some pics somebody soon will come along and help you
 

Tom

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New tortoise mom here I have two (2-3mo old) sulcatas. I have googled, YouTubed and read things here and I’m at a loss what to do.
I have them both in a Zoo med tortoise house that’s plenty spacious (they are about 2 oz each so very small still obviously)
I literally have everything the reptile shop said I need and have it “flip proof” as possible. The lamps , substrate hides a dark said with damp moss and more hides daily baths the whole 9 as far as I know I’m doing everything by the book.
but my one keeps flipping to the point I have a camera so I can check on them and yesterday luckily I was close to home and had to come save her. It’s always under the lights as well and that makes it stressful. I can’t sit and watch a camera non stop it’s just not possible and I work full time and travel so I’m not always close to home (I’m home daily tho) She literally will go to the corner and try to climb the wall non stop no matter what I do and just falls over eventually.
Please someone tell me the magic to get her to stop.
my only last idea is to block her to stay in the dark side when I’m not home but that seems unfair to me :( but all I think of all day is if she’s slowly dying it’s literally giving me such anxiety.

Thank you for any help
Hello and welcome.

You've made nearly every mistake there is. If you let us, we will help you. Most of the info you find on this species is wrong.

This explains everything:
 

Yvonne G

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Hi, and welcome!

Of course, we can only guess, using our own experiences to guide us, and I had a couple thoughts pop into my mind as I read your post.

First of all, having two in one enclosure isn't a good idea. Three or more works ok, but when you have two, there is a dominant and a subordinate, and it's stressful for both of them, as the dominant is telling the other one to get out of his territory, but try as he might, the other one just can climb that corner and get out.

The other thing was hiding places. Baby tortoises are prey and they seldom venture out into the open. To fix that and make them more comfortable, you add lots of "furniture" to their enclosure. Lots of plants in pots make great sight barriers.

After you read the link Tom posted for you, and make some changes to your enclosure (s), here's a picture to give you an example:

vision cage 7-18-20.jpg

I understand - not everyone can afford to buy those closed enclosures, so you have to improvise. When I first started making closed enclosures, I jury rigged a light stand and used sheet plastic to cover the whole thing. It doesn't work as well as the manufactured enclosure, but it worked:

light stand a.jpglight stand b.jpglight stand c.jpglight stand d.jpglight stand e.jpglight stand g.jpg

Then you drape a sheet of plastic over the whole thing, tucking it in under the bottom of the stand. Not as 'pretty' as the manufactured enclosure, but it keeps the warm, moist air in the enclosure and the cooler air from the house out.
 

jeff kushner

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Wow Mags, I didn't realize that Mary was so big.....she looks great!

New owner.....rocks, decorations, al that stuff that YOU like, they find ways to get into trouble with. Pictures will let the folks here really see what you've got.....and remember, having thick-skin here is important. The folks here only want to help your little guys.....sometimes, it seems brusk.....toughen up, it'll be ok, as Mags said; these are some of the most talented folks you will find, ANYwhere!

Good luck,
 

zolasmum

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Messages
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New tortoise mom here I have two (2-3mo old) sulcatas. I have googled, YouTubed and read things here and I’m at a loss what to do.
I have them both in a Zoo med tortoise house that’s plenty spacious (they are about 2 oz each so very small still obviously)
I literally have everything the reptile shop said I need and have it “flip proof” as possible. The lamps , substrate hides a dark said with damp moss and more hides daily baths the whole 9 as far as I know I’m doing everything by the book.
but my one keeps flipping to the point I have a camera so I can check on them and yesterday luckily I was close to home and had to come save her. It’s always under the lights as well and that makes it stressful. I can’t sit and watch a camera non stop it’s just not possible and I work full time and travel so I’m not always close to home (I’m home daily tho) She literally will go to the corner and try to climb the wall non stop no matter what I do and just falls over eventually.
Please someone tell me the magic to get her to stop.
my only last idea is to block her to stay in the dark side when I’m not home but that seems unfair to me :( but all I think of all day is if she’s slowly dying it’s literally giving me such anxiety.

Thank you for any help
Hello -I am not a sulcata expert, but I understand that moss in an enclosure is a very bad idea - babies may eat it on purpose, or through it getting stuck to their food - it can swell up inside, and cause an impaction - it wouldn't take much in a baby's tiny gut.
Angie
 

Momma_cat

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Clearwater Florida
Wow Mags, I didn't realize that Mary was so big.....she looks great!

New owner.....rocks, decorations, al that stuff that YOU like, they find ways to get into trouble with. Pictures will let the folks here really see what you've got.....and remember, having thick-skin here is important. The folks here only want to help your little guys.....sometimes, it seems brusk.....toughen up, it'll be ok, as Mags said; these are some of the most talented folks you will find, ANYwhere!

Good luck,
I appreciate it I’m trying to read everything it is very off putting that instead of answering my question everyone seems to be attacking me that I’m doing everything wrong (maybe I’m just being a ***** *** I don’t really talk to people much at all online I’m just a stalker of info normally?) but I understand they just want to help I guess. I would t be here if I didn’t want to make sure they are being cared for correctly and living the best possible life. I’m working when I can get photos and things later I will if that helps
 

Maggie3fan

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I know sometimes it can sound like you are being attacked...please try to over look that as we just mean to help the tortoises...you had the wrong information...not your fault we know that...but we are telling how to improve the tortoises care...that's the bottom line...
 

Momma_cat

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Clearwater Florida
I know sometimes it can sound like you are being attacked...please try to over look that as we just mean to help the tortoises...you had the wrong information...not your fault we know that...but we are telling how to improve the tortoises care...that's the bottom line...
Thank you ?
 

Yvonne G

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I appreciate it I’m trying to read everything it is very off putting that instead of answering my question everyone seems to be attacking me that I’m doing everything wrong (maybe I’m just being a ***** *** I don’t really talk to people much at all online I’m just a stalker of info normally?) but I understand they just want to help I guess. I would t be here if I didn’t want to make sure they are being cared for correctly and living the best possible life. I’m working when I can get photos and things later I will if that helps
You wanted to know what you could do to stop your baby from falling on his back. I told you two things I thought were causing him to climb the corner trying to escape:
1. separate them so he doesn't keep trying to escape the bully

2. give them more hiding places (plants) so they feel more secure and will stop trying to climb the corner to escape
 

Tom

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Thank you ?
Yes. What Maggie and Jeff said. Everyone finds the wrong info because that is mostly what is out there. Pet stores almost always give terrible advice and sell all the wrong products. None of that is your fault. Lucky for you and your tortoises, you have now found the correct care info

The pet store probably sold you a CFL UV bulb. If so, this might be why your little one is flipping. It burns their eyes and they desperately try to get away from it.
 

Momma_cat

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Yes. What Maggie and Jeff said. Everyone finds the wrong info because that is mostly what is out there. Pet stores almost always give terrible advice and sell all the wrong products. None of that is your fault. Lucky for you and your tortoises, you have now found the correct care info

The pet store probably sold you a CFL UV bulb. If so, this might be why your little one is flipping. It burns their eyes and they desperately try to get away from it.
So when she falls over she always goes to the same corner. Almost like she wanted to be closer to the light for warmth I thought maybe? Also I live in Florida so it’s always hot and humid here. I didn’t go to a pet store I went to a reptile breeder. I have a heat lamp and a uv lamp both separate.
the moss I was told by the breeders to be kept on the dark side of the tank with the hides and I mist it every morning to act as “dew” I’m told. I have the tortoise pellets I forgot what they’re called and I also give them mixed dark greens (no spinach and also no fruits). I had muffin first and about two weeks later we went ahead and picked up stud. She has been a flipper since day one even before the other was introduced. She goes strait to the corner and looks like she’s trying to climb out. I will pick her up and move her over by the food bowl or in a different area and watch and she immediately will crawl right back over to the same corner and try to climb the wall again. So I made another hide under the light to give it more height thinking that would help if she felt she needed to be higher? She does the same damn thing. I’m not sure what aggression in baby tortoises looks like but to me it doesn’t seem like there’s any maybe I’m totally wrong but they seem to go to each other at night time to snuggle up Muffin is much more active who is the first one I got the one that flips Studd seems to just chill and sleep all the time I would say 3/4 of the day he stays in the dark side and sleeps. Muffin looks like a toddler that runs around and passes out mid play on the floor at first I thought she was dead ?. The substrate is coconut fibers and something that is it looks like mulch. The tortoise house that I got obviously is not the long term but I thought it was the best option for giving them the maximum amount of space I don’t have a bunch of greenery or shrubs or anything like that other than places for them to hide which is to cave areas that I made. If I need to get a third I don’t mind once they’re big enough I have a very large backyard and we’re already going to plant the hibiscus and the prickly pear and all that kind of stuff since it grows really well down here in Florida but I wasn’t starting any of that until there to the point that I can put them outside.
 

Momma_cat

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Muffin is the lighter color sleeping and studd is in his sun spot Also I have the non-heat admitting UV light in the left corner because the temperature gage was showing it was too hot so I moved the heat lamp to the outside on the right so that they could still have warms but it wouldn’t be so hot in the one corner that it could possibly hurt theAlso I have the non-heat admitting UV light in the left corner because the temperature gage was showing it was too hot so I moved the heat lamp to the outside on the right so that they could still have warms but it wouldn’t be so hot in the one corner that it could possibly hurt them by some chance
 

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Momma_cat

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You wanted to know what you could do to stop your baby from falling on his back. I told you two things I thought were causing him to climb the corner trying to escape:
1. separate them so he doesn't keep trying to escape the bully

2. give them more hiding places (plants) so they feel more secure and will stop trying to climb the corner to escape
Yes thanks I under I wasn’t saying you specifically I’m sorry if you took it that way I got the second one bc I thought maybe she would stop climbing like she was bored so she’s been doing this since before her tank mate I’m gonna work on getting some more terra-cotta plants pots and some things for the other side to see if maybe they just don’t have enough places to hide like you said
 

Momma_cat

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Yes thanks I under I wasn’t saying you specifically I’m sorry if you took it that way I got the second one bc I thought maybe she would stop climbing like she was bored so she’s been doing this since before her tank mate I’m gonna work on getting some more terra-cotta plants pots and some things for the other side to see if maybe they just don’t have enough places to hide like you said
Also I’m trying to get used to the way this site works and I’m at work ? so sometimes I’m reading things late I think after I comment on others
 

Tom

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So when she falls over she always goes to the same corner. Almost like she wanted to be closer to the light for warmth I thought maybe? Also I live in Florida so it’s always hot and humid here. I didn’t go to a pet store I went to a reptile breeder. I have a heat lamp and a uv lamp both separate.
the moss I was told by the breeders to be kept on the dark side of the tank with the hides and I mist it every morning to act as “dew” I’m told. I have the tortoise pellets I forgot what they’re called and I also give them mixed dark greens (no spinach and also no fruits). I had muffin first and about two weeks later we went ahead and picked up stud. She has been a flipper since day one even before the other was introduced. She goes strait to the corner and looks like she’s trying to climb out. I will pick her up and move her over by the food bowl or in a different area and watch and she immediately will crawl right back over to the same corner and try to climb the wall again. So I made another hide under the light to give it more height thinking that would help if she felt she needed to be higher? She does the same damn thing. I’m not sure what aggression in baby tortoises looks like but to me it doesn’t seem like there’s any maybe I’m totally wrong but they seem to go to each other at night time to snuggle up Muffin is much more active who is the first one I got the one that flips Studd seems to just chill and sleep all the time I would say 3/4 of the day he stays in the dark side and sleeps. Muffin looks like a toddler that runs around and passes out mid play on the floor at first I thought she was dead ?. The substrate is coconut fibers and something that is it looks like mulch. The tortoise house that I got obviously is not the long term but I thought it was the best option for giving them the maximum amount of space I don’t have a bunch of greenery or shrubs or anything like that other than places for them to hide which is to cave areas that I made. If I need to get a third I don’t mind once they’re big enough I have a very large backyard and we’re already going to plant the hibiscus and the prickly pear and all that kind of stuff since it grows really well down here in Florida but I wasn’t starting any of that until there to the point that I can put them outside.
Most breeders don't know how to start babies correctly and give the same terrible advice as pet stores, vets, and everyone else. We've had the wrong idea about how to care for this species for decades, and the same wrong idea just keeps getting passed down year after year.

Open topped enclosures do not work for this species. There is no way to maintain the correct heat and humidity with no top on the enclosure. This would be like trying to heat or cool your house with no roof on it. It doesn't work. You need two large closed chambers to get you through until they are large enough to live outside full time.

You've got the wrong UV bulb. That type can burn their eyes. That might be your problem.

Cuddling up at night (or during the day) isn't cuddling. That is crowding, as in "Hey dummy. Get out of my space." They should not be living as a pair. The flipper may be trying to escape the territory of the other one, as Yvonne explained.

Moss should not be used with tortoises. It does nothing and its an impaction hazard.
 

Momma_cat

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Joined
Oct 14, 2021
Messages
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Location (City and/or State)
Clearwater Florida
Hi, and welcome!

Of course, we can only guess, using our own experiences to guide us, and I had a couple thoughts pop into my mind as I read your post.

First of all, having two in one enclosure isn't a good idea. Three or more works ok, but when you have two, there is a dominant and a subordinate, and it's stressful for both of them, as the dominant is telling the other one to get out of his territory, but try as he might, the other one just can climb that corner and get out.

The other thing was hiding places. Baby tortoises are prey and they seldom venture out into the open. To fix that and make them more comfortable, you add lots of "furniture" to their enclosure. Lots of plants in pots make great sight barriers.

After you read the link Tom posted for you, and make some changes to your enclosure (s), here's a picture to give you an example:

View attachment 334587

I understand - not everyone can afford to buy those closed enclosures, so you have to improvise. When I first started making closed enclosures, I jury rigged a light stand and used sheet plastic to cover the whole thing. It doesn't work as well as the manufactured enclosure, but it worked:

View attachment 334588View attachment 334589View attachment 334590View attachment 334591View attachment 334592View attachment 334593

Then you drape a sheet of plastic over the whole thing, tucking it in under the bottom of the stand. Not as 'pretty' as the manufactured enclosure, but it keeps the warm, moist air in the enclosure and the cooler air from the house out.
How does the lighting work on a front opening enclosure like the one you showed in the first picture. I’m confused about the lighting and not having an open top so is it a type of tube bulb or does it hang inside or something?
 
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