Baby leopard - help!

[Linah4]

Hi everybody!

I am a new mom to a baby leopard tortoise (pardalis bobcocki). I am very new to this as I've never owned any type of reptile. He/she is just over 4 months old and I do have a few questions.

I've noticed that he hasn't been eating and sleeping a lot. I can't say what he's doing during the day as I am at work but usually when I come home I pull him out of his box and he wakes up for about half hour then falls asleep again. I try to get him to eat but I've had Him for about two weeks and he's only eaten decent twice and pooped maybe 3 or 4 times. How often should he be pooping and how much should he be eating? He only seems to eat the green leaf lettuce and sometimes will take a bite of kale. He rejects dandelion, turnip greens, grass, etc. I grated him a bit of carrot last time and he seemed to enjoy that. He won't eat any fruit. The breeder told me only to soak him once or twice a week for 5 minutes max because the water will get too cold, otherwise spray him with warm water a few times a dat so that's what I've been doing. He also said not to give him a water dish.

His enclosure kind of suck right now cause I wasn't sure if I was going to keep him. But I'm trying to understand the difference between a UVB and a heating lamp and when they should be on and if it should be on together. I understand he needs an enclosure big enough to have a smooth hot-cold gradient but if I buy the combo UVB/heating lamp how will he get UVB in the cooler spot?

Also, how do I control the temperatures? Is there a thermostat or something that I can adjust just for him? Don't these heating lights only provide one temperature?

What is an ideal enclosure for him considering I have two cats? Can you recommend any? I was thinking one if those larger guinea pig cages?

Please help me with any advise, I really don't want to see my little guy suffer!

 

[taza]

Go to the enclosure section on this forum check out enclosure ideas also read Tom's threads about enclosures.
Sounds like the breeder gave you terrible advice, water dish is very important, and daily soaks very important.

 

[taza]

http://www.tortoiseforum.org/threads/how-to-raise-a-healthy-sulcata-or-leopard-version-2-0.78361/

Here is a link please read it.

 

[Linah4]

Thanks! I took a read and looks like the breeder told me to do everything opposite of what it says here. I wanted to ask, what is his poop supposed to look like?

I know everywhere says to take him out as much as possible, I am in Alberta and we don't have the warmest days (the temperature today is 14 degrees Celsius). He is only four months, when is it warm enough to take him out?

 

[taza]

Im in Ontario still too cold here too. Wait awhile yet dont want him to get chilled.

 

[Linah4]

Will do. So I'm becoming very concerned. He doesn't seem to have any energy. He won't eat, barely pooping, not walking... When I touch him his little head and arms go in and out pretty frequently. I'm afraid he's ill, and suggestions?? I soaked him but I'm worried as he doesn't even have the energy to lift his head up so he may drown. Please help!

 

[Linah4]

He was also blowing out lots of bubbles from his nose when I pulled him out of the water. He pooped a tiny bit and it was white (I'm wondering if he's constipated because he poops a tiny bit and it sticks to his bum).

 

[KatieandKyle]

I'm so sorry you are struggling. It sounds like you have been very misguided. That's not your fault. My best suggestion is to read the care sheet that was posted for the leopard and emulate it as best as possible. This is the best place to get things straightened out. Post pictures of him and keep asking questions. There are very knowledgable members that will help as best as possible but you need to explain everything in detail for them to formulate their best opinion. Then when they do give their advice remember that they are trying to educated you on how to save your little one. It's not personal.

Read, read and then read some more! There is a plethora of information that will give you answers and other things to ponder.

I wish you the best

 

[Neal]

Will do. So I'm becoming very concerned. He doesn't seem to have any energy. He won't eat, barely pooping, not walking... When I touch him his little head and arms go in and out pretty frequently. I'm afraid he's ill, and suggestions?? I soaked him but I'm worried as he doesn't even have the energy to lift his head up so he may drown. Please help!

He definitely sounds ill. You need to set him up in a sort of ICU. Keep him warm and humid around the clock. I suggest no less than 90 degrees Fahrenheit and no warmer than mid to upper 90's. Maintain humidity from 70% - 90%. Keep him well hydrated by soaking frequently and keep fresh food available at all times. Soaking him in baby food may help also.

I don't have a whole lot of experience with sick young tortoises, but when I have, the above regimen worked well. In one instance I had a spare egg incubator where I housed a couple of stars for a few days and both turned out fine.

 

[Linah4]

Thanks for the replies. Do you think it would be a good idea to take him to a vet?

 

[Tort4u2love]

I have a little guy that was very lethargic and sounds just yours. I did exactly what Neal said and my little one is getting better! She's eating better each day. And she's now walking around her enclosure, her eyes are open and she has perked up so much in the last few days! Just follow what they tell u and your little one has the best chance to make a recovery.

 

[Linah4]

Well, $200 later I took him to the vet because I honestly thought he was dying. They gave me vitamin supplement that I have to give via needles, sunshine factor and some antibiotics because they "think" he's got a respiratory infection. I swear they were googling his symptoms and printed off a few sheets from tortoise trust. I have to give him needles for both vitamins and antibiotics, that's two! Poor guy, do you all recommend that I give him these or not?

 

[Linah4]

I have a little guy that was very lethargic and sounds just yours. I did exactly what Neal said and my little one is getting better! She's eating better each day. And she's now walking around her enclosure, her eyes are open and she has perked up so much in the last few days! Just follow what they tell u and your little one has the best chance to make a recovery.

I wish I saw this before my vet trip . Thanks for posting though!

 

[Linah4]

Bubbling from the nose does sound like cause for concern, possibly respiratory infection. And since the recommendations you had been given by the breeder contradict everything that has worked well for hundreds of forum members, there is a good chance that he's gotten sick. Did the vet take blood samples and check for imbalanced white cell counts to check for infection? Elevated temperature and humidity (no lower than 80 on either) and a hot basking area with adequate UVB would definitely improve matters. Administering the prescribed medicine is advisable but definitely make sure he receives a good diet (less junk food) while he's mending. The antibiotic will likely impact intestinal flora and he could have difficulty digesting and recovering if his diet is sub-par.

No... That's what I found funny is that he charged me $200, and did not run any kind of tests. No blood, no poop, nothing. Is that normal? I have to give the poor baby needles everyday. Isn't that harsh ? All going in his little arm? That's 12 needles in the next few weeks. How is it ok to poke him that many times?

 

[Neal]

The shots themselves would not be overly harmful for the tortoise. Just switch arms each time to give the other one an opportunity to heal.

I will not make any recommendations as to whether or not you should give these shots, that can only be your decision. What it amounts to is how much trust you have in your veterinarian. I will say that based on your description, it may be a good idea to seek out a new vet in the future. But, of course, I don't know your vet so take that suggestion for what it's worth. Don't be afraid to call around and interview some of the veterinarians to find one that has a good amount of tortoise knowledge and experience.

 

[Tom]

Oh jeez. Not again with the vitamin injections...

Sorry for my cynicism, but this is the standard response from vets that have no clue about tortoises. These injections can actually be harmful or fatal, and they do not address the CAUSE of the issue. They also help nothing.

Please read these threads. They will answer a lot of your questions:
http://www.tortoiseforum.org/threads/hatchling-failure-syndrome.23493/
http://www.tortoiseforum.org/threads/my-tortoise-pooped-out-some-white-stuff.14782/

 

[Linah4]

The shots themselves would not be overly harmful for the tortoise. Just switch arms each time to give the other one an opportunity to heal.

I will not make any recommendations as to whether or not you should give these shots, that can only be your decision. What it amounts to is how much trust you have in your veterinarian. I will say that based on your description, it may be a good idea to seek out a new vet in the future. But, of course, I don't know your vet so take that suggestion for what it's worth. Don't be afraid to call around and interview some of the veterinarians to find one that has a good amount of tortoise knowledge and experience.

The only reason I took him to that vet is because it was the only emergency vet with exotic specialists. I am going to call the place I've been looking at tomorrow and ask them their opinion, I know the vet there actually owns a leopard. I'm just wondering, if he does have an infection, could he be cured without antibiotics?

 

[Tom]

... I know the vet there actually owns a leopard. I'm just wondering, if he does have an infection, could he be cured without antibiotics?

A vet that actually owns a tortoise is a great start.

Yes it can be cured without antibiotics. You need to raise temps up to 85-95 round the clock for a few weeks, and then address the original CAUSE of the sickness and fix it. You will need to soak daily with these higher temps and make sure humidity stays up.

 

[Linah4]

I'm so worried about him, if the vitamin shots are harmful I don't want to give them to him. I might hold off on the antibiotics and try the method Tom provided. I can swear that vet was googling his symptoms and just printed off a few care sheets based on them. They came and asked me where he originated from...

I am confused about the lighting though. How do I maintain a temperature in there? The vet told me I should have two separate lamps, a heating lamp for the warm end and a uv lamp. But how do I maintain the cold end? Do I get a hired lamp for the cool end?

Tom, in this case where I am trying get him better, do I leave the entire box just one temperature (85-95)?

 

[dmmj]

Avoid the vit. shot, as for the antibiotic shot that is your call, none of us have seen the tortoise (IRL), so real hard to diagnose, bubbles are a concern and could be a RI, you must use your own judgement on the antibiotic shot. If it were my tort I would use the antibiotic shots and avoid the vit. shots, it is what I would do,there are better ways of getting vitamins in your tortoise then by shots.