Baby comes tomorrow!

CincyTort26

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Hi guys!!

It’s been a while since I posted, I had a baby sulcata for 3 years, he/she never really thrived, and last summer my significant other was tort sitting for me and he managed to escape his outdoor enclosure (it had been moved to mow the lawn and my guess is my SO did not get it close enough to the ground, so he got underneath it).

I contemplated getting another for a while now, but I'm planning on buying a home this fall (assuming the world doesn’t come to an end before then) and decided to go ahead and get a new baby!!!
I’m spending today setting up his enclosure! Here’s what I have so far.FBC9FE7A-C38A-40DF-9DDB-F46E66C5F480.jpeg

it’s 4’ x 2’ and I’m hoping it will be his home for the first year.
its a rabbit cage I ordered off chewy. it came with a metal top that I am encasing in clear plastic as soon as I post this ;) so it will be a closed chamber
Substrate: 50% organic topsoil, 50% peat moss, soaked in TONS of water. Pressed down firm. If I push on the substrate the smallest amount of water squished out.
On the left is the built in hide for the bunnies, which I’ve also put dirt on top of so he can climb atop the hide too.
the plants are Romain lettuce (green and red), two plaintain lillys, and a rex begonia. Everything g I read said those are non toxic. I expect they will be munched on/trampled. I’d they survive, great, if not, I won’t be heart broken.
His main diet will be good ‘ole Kentucky bluegrass. And all the dandelions my yard will produce!

the plan is for the hideside to be the cool side, the pot farthest to the left the basking spot/food spot,the one in the middle the water dish.
I have a long bulb UVA/UVB bulb, a 150watt zoo med basking light, and a small ceramic heat emitter I’m waiting to arrive from Amazon.

I would LOVE any input or suggestions you guys have!!!!!
P.s. he’s coming from Arizona Tortoise Compound
 

Tom

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It looks mostly good, but I see a few problems.

  • I don't know what "plantain lily" is. Plantain weeds (Plantago) are great, but lily's are almost all toxic. I don't see any plantain in your enclosure, so I fear you have a type of lily.
  • That substrate is a no go. Soil should never be used under tortoises. It is made from composted yard waste, and there is no way to know what it is, and it could be something toxic. Its also muddy and messy.
  • Peat moss will cause shell rot even on species that don't normally get it like leopards or sulcatas. I would have any of that in the substrate.
  • That substrate is too wet. It will cause problems.
  • Fine grade orchid bark works best. 3-4 inches. Damp on the bottom layers and dry-ish on top where the tortoise will walk.
  • Grass and dandelions are both great tortoise foods, but he'll need much more variety than that.
  • 150 watt basking light is going to dry out the carapace and cause pyramiding. You shouldn't need anything bigger than a 65 watt flood.
  • That enclosure will not last a year, unless you buy a dry started baby and it grows very slowly. A well started baby housed in a warm humid closed chamber can easily reach 800-1000 grams in its first year. Your current enclosure will be too small when the baby is half that size.
This next thing is more of a philosophical question about where you are getting your tortoise. You've clearly read the care sheets and understand the importance of a warm humid environment, hydration, and proper housing, but you are buying from someone who does the opposite. He does not soak daily, and he does not house his tortoises indoors in warm humid enclosures. Why not buy from someone who starts their babies more in line with what you think is the right way?

Here is what can happen when they are started dry, housed outdoors all day, and not soaked enough: https://tortoiseforum.org/threads/hatchling-failure-syndrome.23493/

By contrast, here is how they should be started:


Here is all the sulcata info in case you haven't already seen these:

Questions and conversation are welcome.
 

CincyTort26

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Joined
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Messages
33
Location (City and/or State)
Cincinnati, OH
It looks mostly good, but I see a few problems.

  • I don't know what "plantain lily" is. Plantain weeds (Plantago) are great, but lily's are almost all toxic. I don't see any plantain in your enclosure, so I fear you have a type of lily.
  • That substrate is a no go. Soil should never be used under tortoises. It is made from composted yard waste, and there is no way to know what it is, and it could be something toxic. Its also muddy and messy.
  • Peat moss will cause shell rot even on species that don't normally get it like leopards or sulcatas. I would have any of that in the substrate.
  • That substrate is too wet. It will cause problems.
  • Fine grade orchid bark works best. 3-4 inches. Damp on the bottom layers and dry-ish on top where the tortoise will walk.
  • Grass and dandelions are both great tortoise foods, but he'll need much more variety than that.
  • 150 watt basking light is going to dry out the carapace and cause pyramiding. You shouldn't need anything bigger than a 65 watt flood.
  • That enclosure will not last a year, unless you buy a dry started baby and it grows very slowly. A well started baby housed in a warm humid closed chamber can easily reach 800-1000 grams in its first year. Your current enclosure will be too small when the baby is half that size.
This next thing is more of a philosophical question about where you are getting your tortoise. You've clearly read the care sheets and understand the importance of a warm humid environment, hydration, and proper housing, but you are buying from someone who does the opposite. He does not soak daily, and he does not house his tortoises indoors in warm humid enclosures. Why not buy from someone who starts their babies more in line with what you think is the right way?

Here is what can happen when they are started dry, housed outdoors all day, and not soaked enough: https://tortoiseforum.org/threads/hatchling-failure-syndrome.23493/

By contrast, here is how they should be started:


Here is all the sulcata info in case you haven't already seen these:

Questions and conversation are welcome.

thank you so much!!
Would using orchid bark (or cypress mulch, not sure I can find orchid bark by tomorrow) over the top of these substrates work? So the kiddo can still dig?

Plantain Lillies are a type of hosta. Which I believe are ok for torts?

that breaks my heart to hear about how they’re started. I had thought ATC was pretty legit. The baby is already in the mail on the way here, so I can’t cancel at this point. I suppose I’ll have to just do my best to keep him/her as healthy as I can.
I’ll switch out the bulb to a lower wattage :)

part of the reason I went with this rabbit cage is because you can add them together. Chewy accidentally sent me two of them, so I can double the amount of space at a moments notice!!
 

Tom

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thank you so much!!
Would using orchid bark (or cypress mulch, not sure I can find orchid bark by tomorrow) over the top of these substrates work? So the kiddo can still dig?

Plantain Lillies are a type of hosta. Which I believe are ok for torts?

that breaks my heart to hear about how they’re started. I had thought ATC was pretty legit. The baby is already in the mail on the way here, so I can’t cancel at this point. I suppose I’ll have to just do my best to keep him/her as healthy as I can.
I’ll switch out the bulb to a lower wattage :)

part of the reason I went with this rabbit cage is because you can add them together. Chewy accidentally sent me two of them, so I can double the amount of space at a moments notice!!

The soil could be toxic. The peat will rot your tortoises plastron. Both are too wet. I wouldn't want that in my enclosure. I'd remove it. Use it in the garden somewhere.

We don't have hostas here, but I've seen them back East. I thought they looked kind of like hostas, but I'm not familiar with the different names or if all of them are edible, or not.

Don't misunderstand what I'm saying about ATC. Andy is a nice guy. He's honest and respectable, but he and I disagree about how babies should be started and raised. He operates on a very large scale, and I operate on the smallest of small scales. He's got a business to run, and I have a small hobby to enjoy. Totally different worlds. He's gotta do what he's gotta do to make it work. I do it differently. Hopefully, you'll get a good one and everything will go great.
 
Last edited:

Sa Ga

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The soil could be toxic. The peat will rot your tortoises plastron. Both are too wet. I wouldn't want that in my enclosure. I'd remove it. Use it in the garden somewhere.

We don't have hostas here, but I've seen them back East. I thought they looked kind of like hostas, but I'm not familiar with the different names or if all of them are edible, or not.

Don't misunderstand what I'm saying about ATC. Andy is a nice guy. He's honest and respectable, but he and I disagree about how babies should be started and raised. He operates on a very large scale, and I operate on the smallest of small scales. He's got a business to run, and I have a small hobby to enjoy. Totally different worlds. He's gotta do what he's gotta do to make it work. I do it differently. Hopefully, you'll get a good one and everything will go great.
@Tom, do you know where we could get nontoxic, clean soil (free from debris, bugs, and parasites)?
 

Tom

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@Tom, do you know where we could get nontoxic, clean soil (free from debris, bugs, and parasites)?
No. My problem isn't with debris, bugs or parasites. My problem is with potential toxicity, either from any number of lawn poisons in common use, or from toxic plants like oleander used to make the soil. A secondary problem would be that its messy, muddy when wet, and turns my tortoises black where they touch it. There is just no limit to the things it could be made from, and no way to know what those things are in a given bag.

By definition there will be debris in any soil. Its made of debris. Bugs living in the soil won't hurt our tortoises, and even if you got sol with no bugs, bugs from the surrounding area will soon move in. If the soil hasn't been recently pooped on by another tortoise or reptile, parasites are extremely unlikely to come from soil.
 

Sa Ga

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No. My problem isn't with debris, bugs or parasites. My problem is with potential toxicity, either from any number of lawn poisons in common use, or from toxic plants like oleander used to make the soil. A secondary problem would be that its messy, muddy when wet, and turns my tortoises black where they touch it. There is just no limit to the things it could be made from, and no way to know what those things are in a given bag.

By definition there will be debris in any soil. Its made of debris. Bugs living in the soil won't hurt our tortoises, and even if you got sol with no bugs, bugs from the surrounding area will soon move in. If the soil hasn't been recently pooped on by another tortoise or reptile, parasites are extremely unlikely to come from soil.

Yikes! Ugh, well, I like mixing a little organic soil in with the Eco Earth (1:3) to keep the Eco from being SO light and crumbly, and the Eco keeps the dirt moist without being muddy. But it would be a NIGHTMARE to have something poisonous in the soil hurt/kill her. I didn't realize they can use white oleander to make soil!!!

I keep my gal indoors bc I live in MN, wayyyy too cold most of the year for being kept outside. So not having bugs or debris (ie: chunks of rock, branches, moss, etc.) is important to me. There has got to be a way to get SAFE soil for torts. Hmmmm....
 

Tom

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There has got to be a way to get SAFE soil for torts. Hmmmm....
There is. Make it yourself using known safe ingredients. But why? Nothing works better than plain orchid bark all by itself, and its cheap and readily available. Even without the toxicity risks, I still wouldn't use soil. Its not the best way to go.
 

CincyTort26

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Hey guys! Update! The baby arrived this morning, and here s/he is in her updated enclosure!!
I’m open to any other improvements!!

(I couldn’t find orchid bark so I went with cypress mulch, pet store sourced so it’s safe)

also, does it look like she’s starting to pyramid already?3A18CA9A-BD02-4125-B69B-78EA7208EDBC.jpegC048EA4E-5EE7-4D1A-B001-41F5F6910529.jpeg30243F92-A5D7-4ADC-9992-6B61D98BF220.jpeg
 

Chubbs the tegu

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Cutie! Looks like lil pyramiding starting.. no big deal though.. wont even notice if u take care of it now. Keep that humidity in 80’s and 30 min soaks daily. Cypress mulch wrks well. I would keep an eye on the plastic over ur uv fixture.. some have vents on top to let hear escape and might melt onto ur fixture
 

haydog_99

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Hey guys! Update! The baby arrived this morning, and here s/he is in her updated enclosure!!
I’m open to any other improvements!!

(I couldn’t find orchid bark so I went with cypress mulch, pet store sourced so it’s safe)

also, does it look like she’s starting to pyramid already?View attachment 290034View attachment 290035View attachment 290036
Good idea with the plastic, how are your temps and humidity holding up? What type of bulbs do you have in the domes?
 

Sa Ga

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There is. Make it yourself using known safe ingredients. But why? Nothing works better than plain orchid bark all by itself, and its cheap and readily available. Even without the toxicity risks, I still wouldn't use soil. Its not the best way to go.
How about a MyPillow? They're soft and cuddly...
 

CincyTort26

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Good idea with the plastic, how are your temps and humidity holding up? What type of bulbs do you have in the domes?

I'm waiting on my hygrometer to arrive, but according to my little laser thermometer its about 110 degrees directly under the basking bulb, and 80 on the far side.

The flat bulb on top is my UVA/UVB
The big dome is my 150W basking bulb (I know Tom mentioned downgrading it, but when I did that it wasn't getting warm enough)
the little due dome has a 100W CHE in the right side. The left side is empty/unplugged.
 

Toddrickfl1

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Congratulations on your new Tort!
 

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