Article on Desert Tortoises being Moved

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Torty Mom

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http://robocaster.com/pe/podcast-ep...ve-desert-tortoises-moved-from-harms-way.aspx

Interesting article, however I am not happy with the fact that they are releasing them on October 1st, how is that going to give them time enough to build a burrow to survive the hostile desert winter. So, whomever the dumb a** that thought that date up, will now kill even more of the desert tortoises! UGH!! I am disgusted and sad..........
 

dmmj

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sadly all of the relocation attempts have all been dismal failures, very low survival rate.
 

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.....with every species we devour we become one step closer to our own demise..... thumbs are absolutely over rated
 

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ascott said:
.....with every species we devour we become one step closer to our own demise..... thumbs are absolutely over rated
I like my thumbs
 

Torty Mom

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They are not giving the tortoises time to prepare for their own hibernation, it takes more than a week to make a decent burrow to hibernate in. Plus they are dumping them in unfamiliar territory. Really? What dork gave this idea their stamp of approval!!! Seriously writing a letter won't do, they are going to do what they are going to do. I just don't see how they can do this and think it's okay. If it were May or June, sure they would have time to adapt to their new surroundings, but seriously October 1st, that's just a joke! Maybe that's why they have found 90 dead. They can't adapt, just not enough time. Ugh, I get so irritated thinking about it, because the deaths are senseless, unnecessary and most importantly sad.
 

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My question why do they want to hurt the environment around us then complain that we need to be conserved about mother nature. Idk that is very irritating in my book.
 

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Torty Mom said:
http://robocaster.com/pe/podcast-ep...ve-desert-tortoises-moved-from-harms-way.aspx

Interesting article, however I am not happy with the fact that they are releasing them on October 1st, how is that going to give them time enough to build a burrow to survive the hostile desert winter. So, whomever the dumb a** that thought that date up, will now kill even more of the desert tortoises! UGH!! I am disgusted and sad..........

It's unfortunate, but any development is going to have impacts on wildlife populations, these biologists are doing their best to conserve a threatened species and admit that many tortoises will die, post-translocation.

The release date may be a result of political and bureaucratic decisions made outside of the wildlife biologists control (or wants). Unfortunately, we are often left doing what we can in the face of poorly placed decisions, which may negatively impact our objectives for conserving species.

I could go on for days about this, but there's no sense barking up this tree here. All we can do is lobby congress and hope that better decisions are made and improved laws/policies enacted. The wildlife biologists care deeply about these animals too, development is a very difficult beast for us to combat, even when it's for something good such as a solar panel field.
 

Torty Mom

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Chris, no doubt that they care, I am sure they do, but they are the ones who can speak for the tortoises and say a release date of Oct, is no bueno. That is my only beef. I know everyone has to do what they have to do, I'm cool. Progress with forage on and the desert dwellers will lose every time. BUT, someone should really speak up about the release date, it's a death sentence and really unfair to the species. I am positive there would still be deaths with a release date earlier in the year as well, but the earlier date gives them a little more time to do their tortie thing! Just saying!!! No disrespect meant!! :p
 

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Torty Mom said:
Chris, no doubt that they care, I am sure they do, but they are the ones who can speak for the tortoises and say a release date of Oct, is no bueno. That is my only beef. I know everyone has to do what they have to do, I'm cool. Progress with forage on and the desert dwellers will lose every time. BUT, someone should really speak up about the release date, it's a death sentence and really unfair to the species. I am positive there would still be deaths with a release date earlier in the year as well, but the earlier date gives them a little more time to do their tortie thing! Just saying!!! No disrespect meant!! :p

You're right, they do have the power to speak for the tortoises, and my point was I'm sure that they did. I guess my point came across a bit cryptic, and I never took offense or disrespect from any of your opinions, I'm just trying to use this as an example of what we go through frequently.

If you'd allow me to hazard a guess (**This is all a guess, I have no idea what is actually occurring here**), I'd say the biologists probably told the city/state and developer the translocation date was less than optimal if not dismal. There's a good chance the developer said they had to complete the work by a certain date because of pressures from investors, politicians, and the communities that were going to use this solar grid. Once you start throwing in all these pressures, it's amazing how quickly the voices of the biologists/ecologists are drowned by the financial obligations of the aforementioned parties interested in the project. At this point, the biologists are usually in a pickle, they know that if they don't remove the animals there's a good chance that most are going to die and if they do they're likely going to lose many of the individuals due to poor phenological timing. This brings in a greater dilemma because if we do move the animals and a lot die, we can be sued by NGO's (non-government organization) from making a poor decision...even though we did the absolute best we could! You're probably thinking, yea but we have laws for this stuff! We do, but most have had their teeth and spines removed and if they're not federally endangered species, we can't exert much power on what's occurring. Development is a swashbuckling pirate!

Good Biologists like to hear from the public and want the public involved and concerned with wildlife. I'd encourage you to speak with the folks on this project if it's in your area and you are upset about it, chances are they're quite upset too! Everyone in the conservation biology field knows we are nothing without your voices! We need the public to show their love and affection for wildlife to ensure it's there for the future. Write your senators, lobby congress, make a fuss!

Sometimes we just make poor decisions too...so call them up and ask! It's good to know people are watching and care, we're only human...
 

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I know big companies are only turning a profit "all in the name of progress"....I know biologists are only doing their job....I know we are only human....all to me are just words..

..there are tortoise out there that have been ripped from their world...tossed into holding pens where they will be "tested" for URI and the "infected" ones never had a chance...it can be then said that they do not have to be cared for and should be destroyed because they are sick.... stress brings on URI as well and it has been documented in tons of reports by scientist and biologists...so who's fault once again is it that the tortoise are in this spot? hmmm. April, May, October, December? what does that truly matter when we are at this point? The spot that was approved for this project is a farce...there were plenty of other locations that could have been used for the project, plenty of others. However, this is essentially "free" land to the big companies so they can then use a fraction of the money they would have used to purchase private property (however San Bernardino County rejected private property purchase due to potential future tax revenue loss) to in turn destroy perfect habitat, not only to the CDT but to other desert dwellers, you see, they did not just dig up any CDT burrow, but every "rodent hole" as well...wow, total decimation of such a vital and viable section of the earth....once again, humans have such ability to be awesome...such ability to be compassionate, the ability to be such wasteful, thoughtless, stupid group of creatures....we did not make the world nor its inhabitants but there are enough of us that certainly are on a mission to single handedly destroy it....

The reports are not even certain that they will be released in October, that is a "target" day...but no set date, it could be later, nearer winter and if not they will remain in the pens in the winter and there will be less staff during that time to care and secure the tortoise in the holding pens....hmmm.....yummy tortoise trapped in pens in the middle of the desert---coyote/raven playground....it is bad all the way around.... newspaper...news releases...they feed this crap to us about the plight of our "protected" state reptile, one of our oldest dwellers and it is done knowing damn well that there is nothing that will happen...no one to stop them, no one to tell them no.....nothing. Those little tortoise are 100% on their own...realistically.
 

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ascott said:
I know big companies are only turning a profit "all in the name of progress"....I know biologists are only doing their job....I know we are only human....all to me are just words..

..there are tortoise out there that have been ripped from their world...tossed into holding pens where they will be "tested" for URI and the "infected" ones never had a chance...it can be then said that they do not have to be cared for and should be destroyed because they are sick.... stress brings on URI as well and it has been documented in tons of reports by scientist and biologists...so who's fault once again is it that the tortoise are in this spot? hmmm. April, May, October, December? what does that truly matter when we are at this point? The spot that was approved for this project is a farce...there were plenty of other locations that could have been used for the project, plenty of others. However, this is essentially "free" land to the big companies so they can then use a fraction of the money they would have used to purchase private property (however San Bernardino County rejected private property purchase due to potential future tax revenue loss) to in turn destroy perfect habitat, not only to the CDT but to other desert dwellers, you see, they did not just dig up any CDT burrow, but every "rodent hole" as well...wow, total decimation of such a vital and viable section of the earth....once again, humans have such ability to be awesome...such ability to be compassionate, the ability to be such wasteful, thoughtless, stupid group of creatures....we did not make the world nor its inhabitants but there are enough of us that certainly are on a mission to single handedly destroy it....

The reports are not even certain that they will be released in October, that is a "target" day...but no set date, it could be later, nearer winter and if not they will remain in the pens in the winter and there will be less staff during that time to care and secure the tortoise in the holding pens....hmmm.....yummy tortoise trapped in pens in the middle of the desert---coyote/raven playground....it is bad all the way around.... newspaper...news releases...they feed this crap to us about the plight of our "protected" state reptile, one of our oldest dwellers and it is done knowing damn well that there is nothing that will happen...no one to stop them, no one to tell them no.....nothing. Those little tortoise are 100% on their own...realistically.

I'd encourage you to contact folks working in CDT conservation, sounds like you're less than happy about how things are going. Get some other folks on board too, the more the merrier!

The unfortunate truth is that we are part of this system and anything we do will have effects on it, both good and bad. Some animal groups are effected more than others by our actions, but bear in mind everything is connected and we often disturb smaller, less charismatic flora and fauna that are vital to ecosystems function. I will say that reducing your consumption (no accusations here) is probably the best thing folks can do. The less you use/buy, the smaller your environmental footprint. I'm going to post a link here and on the off-topic chit chat for people to consider.

http://www.storyofstuff.com/

As a biologist, I'll tell you I and most of us don't just "do our job", we eat, sleep, and breathe conservation. What I was trying to stress is how politics and bureaucracy get in the mix and can make a mess of things. In a capital system, it is difficult for us to combat rapid monetary gains of those looking to fatten their pockets, the laws often give us very little grip on these greedy people. Capitalism is the antithesis of conservation, it places value on short-term, rapid benefits while discounting long-term viability. Most of these short-term gains come from trashing the environment - watch the story of stuff above.
 

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Hello Chris :D

I am one of the folks to contact working with CDT conservation, "less than happy" does not even begin to describe what my feelings are on this whole charade put on trying to convince the public of the great efforts being made on behalf of the CDT.

"Bear in mind everything is connected" to me there is no part of the ecosystem that is less charismatic than another, each piece- each step -each moment counts towards the next and the imprint from the last is vital....so when we humans use up, tear down, discard any part to extinction....I am personally saddened and less than proud to be part of the whole human race "thing". We humans hold such potential, yet fall short so often.

I would not want anyone to read my post and interpret it to mean that I believe biologists are responsible for what is going on in this particular subject, I do not hold biologist responsible, how silly would that be....the fault rests on all of our shoulders, we as a society, we as a people have failed....we have allowed a system to be in place that no longer allows the simple phrase "no, you can not" to be in play.... our greed to obtain what is deemed to be ours has replaced our ability for compassion, honor and the mere act of doing what is right.

I also agree, that we as a society need to come back to roots of; use what you need share some of what you have with those who have not....this would reduce our society imprint on the world and would bring back the sense of we the people, would that not be awesome?

How does one know what it is like to indulge if never done without, how it feels to truly help another by doing without to appreciate their plight, to walk a mile in your own shoes carrying someone who can no longer walk in their own shoes.....we are vering away from our path of greatness and I only hope we find our way back before it is too late....
 

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ascott said:
Hello Chris :D

I am one of the folks to contact working with CDT conservation, "less than happy" does not even begin to describe what my feelings are on this whole charade put on trying to convince the public of the great efforts being made on behalf of the CDT.

"Bear in mind everything is connected" to me there is no part of the ecosystem that is less charismatic than another, each piece- each step -each moment counts towards the next and the imprint from the last is vital....so when we humans use up, tear down, discard any part to extinction....I am personally saddened and less than proud to be part of the whole human race "thing". We humans hold such potential, yet fall short so often.

I would not want anyone to read my post and interpret it to mean that I believe biologists are responsible for what is going on in this particular subject, I do not hold biologist responsible, how silly would that be....the fault rests on all of our shoulders, we as a society, we as a people have failed....we have allowed a system to be in place that no longer allows the simple phrase "no, you can not" to be in play.... our greed to obtain what is deemed to be ours has replaced our ability for compassion, honor and the mere act of doing what is right.

I also agree, that we as a society need to come back to roots of; use what you need share some of what you have with those who have not....this would reduce our society imprint on the world and would bring back the sense of we the people, would that not be awesome?

How does one know what it is like to indulge if never done without, how it feels to truly help another by doing without to appreciate their plight, to walk a mile in your own shoes carrying someone who can no longer walk in their own shoes.....we are vering away from our path of greatness and I only hope we find our way back before it is too late....

Angela,
Apologies, I didn't realize you were working on CDT's, I hope things improve in the near future for them and everything else within that system. I understand your lament, I worked with DT's in Nevada for some time and was less than impressed with the current protection policies (i.e. Las Vegas' urban sprawl = wild desert tortoise "relocation"...by relocation they meant taking a wild animal and placing it into an outdoor pen, ridiculous!).

Best of luck out there!
 

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Chris, please, no apologies needed :D. We are all in this thing of life together.....I have faith that one day we as a group will "get it"....I just hope sooner rather than later....
 

Torty Mom

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Awesome posts you two!! :D I hope that if the release date gets pushed back much later they keep them penned up. Give me the keys to that darn place and I will go take care of them all winter long. Not too far of a drive from here!!
 
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