Are puffy eyes a serious problem?

[Tech13]

My little Greek tortoise had a puffy eye before and I used the Zoo Med turtle Eye drops, he has it again, same eye but the other looks a little puffy too, so I wonder if using the drops as a preventative is a good idea (after it has been treated for a week) Is there a thread about this problem? He gets lettuce stuck to his eyes sometimes and wipes it off with his arm so I thought that is what caused it, could it be something more serious?

 

[ascott]

What is his diet?

 

[Yvonne G]

Puffy eyes can be caused by several different things, and yes, it could be very serious...because when the tortoise can't see he stops eating.

You really need to try to figure out why this is happening so you can fix the problem.

Is the substrate too dry or is he allergic to it.

To test this, you would remove all the substrate and keep him on paper towels for a week or so to see it it goes away.

Has he stopped eating? Vitamin A deficiency causes swollen eyes, and when they stop eating that's the first indicator - swollen eyes.

Soaking in Gerber strained carrots and water usually fixes this problem in 3 days of soakings.

Is your light too close to the floor of the habitat...or are you using a spiral compact fluorescent bulb?

To fix this, either raise the light, or if CFL stop using the light.

Sometimes a respiratory infection causes swollen eyes.

 

[Tech13]

Tech's diet is mostly romaine, redleaf and green leaf lettuce Lightly dusted with Fluker's calcium with D3. I pick some plantains and he has also had some collard and turnip and dandelion greens and flowers on occasion. I never see him drinking so I always make sure his greens are wet and soak him three times a week. He is about six months old. He eats well.

---

Thank you both, here is a pic of his enclosure:

 

[GeoTerraTestudo]

Puffy eyes can be caused by several different things, and yes, it could be very serious...because when the tortoise can't see he stops eating.

You really need to try to figure out why this is happening so you can fix the problem.

Is the substrate too dry or is he allergic to it.

To test this, you would remove all the substrate and keep him on paper towels for a week or so to see it it goes away.

Has he stopped eating? Vitamin A deficiency causes swollen eyes, and when they stop eating that's the first indicator - swollen eyes.

Soaking in Gerber strained carrots and water usually fixes this problem in 3 days of soakings.

Is your light too close to the floor of the habitat...or are you using a spiral compact fluorescent bulb?

To fix this, either raise the light, or if CFL stop using the light.

Sometimes a respiratory infection causes swollen eyes.

Excellent post. I really want to echo what Yvonne said here. There are multiple causes of puffy eyes, namely dryness, obstruction, infection, harsh lighting, and beta-carotene/vitamin A deficiency (this last one is arguably the most common).

Tech's diet is mostly romaine, redleaf and green leaf lettuce Lightly dusted with Fluker's calcium with D3. I pick some plantains and he has also had some collard and turnip and dandelion greens and flowers on occasion. I never see him drinking so I always make sure his greens are wet and soak him three times a week. He is about six months old. He eats well.

---

Thank you both, here is a pic of his enclosure:

---

Seems a bit dry in there, no? Is the substrate cypress mulch? Not bad, but coco coir is my favorite. Not only does it hold moisture better, but it's also less irritating and more easily expelled if a bit gets into the eyes. You could also try soil, although I don't prefer it.

Diet sounds okay, but it might be a bit deficient in vitamin A or beta-carotene (which turns into vitamin A in the body). Those ZooMed turtle eye drops are a good product, and I have used them myself. But I want to encourage you to think of them as not only an eye drop, but also as a vitamin supplement. You can sprinkle it onto the food a few times per week to increase the vitamin A content of the diet. That way, the vitamin gets incorporated systemically into the whole body, including the eyes. Also, you mentioned using a calcium + vitamin D3 supplement powder. Great stuff, but you can also add a powder containing other vitamins and minerals, including beta-carotene/vitamin A.

You can also try good pelleted foods like Mazuri or ZooMed Grassland. These are enriched with vitamins and minerals, including beta-carotene/vitamin A. Just soak them for a few minutes before offering them to Tech, so that he can get both moisture and nutrition from them.

Finally, I don't think I caught what kind of lighting your using. Is it a compact fluorescent lightbulb (CFL)? If so, then that is also irritating to the eyes, and potentially very harmful. I'd switch to either a long fluorescent bulb, like the ZooMed ReptiSun, or a mercury vapor bulb, like the ZooMed PowerSun. Both provide illumination and UVA and UVB. Mercury vapor bulbs also provide heat, so that's something to consider if you already have another heat source.

Good luck. Tech is adorable!

 

[Tom]

Puffy eyes are an indicator of a serious problem.

What sort of lighting are you using? Coil type florescent?

His diet should be mostly weeds. Store bought lettuce is okay if you can't find anything better, but its not great. Favor endive and escarole heavily, but still use other things for variety. You can also offer grape leaves, mulberry leaves, hibiscus and rose leaves, nasturtiums, gazania, african hibiscus, spineless opuntia pads, etc.

Does your baby have a safe enclosure outdoors for sunning, exercise and grazing in fair weather? This would be highly beneficial.

 

[GBtortoises]

Great information from all of the above. But I don't see "puffy eyes" in the photos of the tortoise that you posted? In fact the eye looks perfectly normal. Are you referring to the eyelid being swollen and incapable of opening at some point?

 

[Tech13]

To GB Tortoises...yes, this is the same tortoise and i guess it was his eye lids (not eye) which were actually swollen-looking, last time it got a little worse, but in one eye only...when he opened it, it was wet and when he wiped it there was moisture from the eye on the area around the eye. I used the drops and it cleared up. I wish I took a picture then. Here is a close up of this time before the drops and today, do you still think the first is normal? Dryness may be the issue in that case since the bfore/after pics differ? I'll post the other info requested by others next, I was told my lighting may be too harsh also, so i really want to get it right for Tech, he deserves the best I am able to do since he isn't in his natural habitat along the Mediterranean.

---

Tom and GeoTerraTestudo...thank you for the time and info you gave in Tech's best interest, I am afraid it may be too dry and coco choir may be my next substrate since it is difficult to keep it humid. What humidity do you recommend? It runs 45% to 53% daytime and around 65% at night. I was told my lighting may be too harsh... Too much UV, if you think so, how would you alter things? I hope to build a table this month or next to swap out for the glass, but until then his current situation needs a remedy, .here is my lighting set up on a 4' long x 18" wide x 21" tall glass enclosure- 15" above substrate all on the basking end- 1 exo terra Repti glow 24" 33% UVA 10% UVB bulb, an All Living Things 150 watt UVA Neodymium and I added the third to get the basking temp higher since the 150 watt wasn't enough: a 75 watt ZooMed basking spot, the basking temp runs 93-100 degrees F daytime and grades down to 75 at the cool end outside of his hide for 13 hours per day , all on timers. his home is 72F at night with no lights or heaters on.

 

[Tech13]

Maybe this should be another thread, but since nutrition is a possible cause and i was asked, i really I haven't ID'd a number of the weeds in our grass and the three days we had 70 degree or higher temps when I was not at work, Tech ate some grass, clover, dandelion, plantain and 2 others I don't know, so I moved him away from those. If anyone in South Central PA knows their weeds, I have pics I can post to ID them. I don't know how, but maybe the thread can be split for this. I checked the tortoise table and an app but though the weeds are probably there, I couldn't find them

 

[Tom]

This is your thread and the weed pics directly relate to your original question. You should feel free to post them here. The easiest way is to go to tinypic.com , upload any size pic, and then copy/paste the IMG code into your forum post.

 

[GeoTerraTestudo]

Tom and GeoTerraTestudo...thank you for the time and info you gave in Tech's best interest, I am afraid it may be too dry and coco choir may be my next substrate since it is difficult to keep it humid. What humidity do you recommend? It runs 45% to 53% daytime and around 65% at night. I was told my lighting may be too harsh... Too much UV, if you think so, how would you alter things? I hope to build a table this month or next to swap out for the glass, but until then his current situation needs a remedy, .here is my lighting set up on a 4' long x 18" wide x 21" tall glass enclosure- 15" above substrate all on the basking end- 1 exo terra Repti glow 24" 33% UVA 10% UVB bulb, an All Living Things 150 watt UVA Neodymium and I added the third to get the basking temp higher since the 150 watt wasn't enough: a 75 watt ZooMed basking spot, the basking temp runs 93-100 degrees F daytime and grades down to 75 at the cool end outside of his hide for 13 hours per day , all on timers. his home is 72F at night with no lights or heaters on.

Here's what I do for my Testudos (which are Russians, not Greeks).

Substrate
4-6" deep coco coir. Moistened everyday by simply dumping out the shallow water dish right onto the substrate.

Humidity
Around 20-40% ambient (much higher beneath the surface)
Note: Again, this is fine for Russians, but a bit low for Greeks. Southern Greeks (e.g. T. graeca floweri) need higher moisture and humidity levels, and are less cold-tolerant. Northern Greeks (e.g. T. graeca ibera) are fine with lower moisture and humidity, and are more cold-tolerant (somewhat like Russians). What kind of Greek is yours?

Illumination and UVA/UVB
I use a 48" long ZooMed ReptiSun 10.0 bulb for both illumination and UVA/UVB. It's about 12-14" above the substrate, and works very well.
Note: Several months ago, I tried switching my ReptiSun out for the 48" ExoTerra ReptilGlo 10.0 instead, and in my experience, it was a much inferior product. I don't know if it was the bluish color, or if its UV output was to harsh, or both, but whatever the reason, it drove my Russians into hiding as soon as I installed it, and they scarcely emerged from their half-log caves until I removed it about a week later. After that, I went back to the ZooMed ReptiSun, and I intend to keep using it from now on.

Whatever you do, don't use compact fluorescent bulbs (CFLs), because these can cause irritation and even blindness.

Temperature
My ambient indoor daytime temperatures are in the 70s, and my nighttime temperatures in the 60s to 70s, which is good for Russians. The hot spots are kept at 95-100*F.

I use 150-W ceramic heat emitters for my basking spots. This has worked very well. CHEs are more expensive than incandescent or mercury vapor bulbs, but they also last a lot longer - guaranteed 5 years, and some (like Tom) have had them much longer. I did recently run into some trouble with my CHEs not getting hot enough (see thread: "I need heat, man"). However, this problem has been resolved. It was apparently due to interference with electricity conduction.

Anyway, in the interim, I switched to 150-W ZooMed incandescent basking spot lamps (these were probably a bit too hot; next time I'd probably try the 100-W, or maybe even the 75-W, like yours). These only last for a few months, and also provide illumination, but many people like to use them to provide a hot spot.

You could also try a mercury vapor bulb, which provides heat, light, and UVA/UVB. I have never used these, but they are popular. I'd ask those who have used them if you have any questions.

 

[Tech13]

GeoTT, Thank you for the information you shared with me. I don't know for sure what type of greek Tech is, I looked in Lance Jepson's 2006 book on Mediterranean Tortoises ( i was in a hurry to get my hands on good info and ordered it before i checked for a newer edition) and he may be a T g. graeca, he has one spur on each upper thigh, and things match up pretty well, but they say yellowish to yellowish green background shell color, and Tech is more tan or amber to me and the humidity issue has been driving me crazy because the pamphlet I was given said Russians 50% and Greeks 50-80%, then stated under substrate that Greeks "like a slightly dryer environment, a 2-3 " mixture of calcium sand and soil or bark works well" this confused me because wouldn't 50-80% humidity be more moist (not dryer)? The pamphlet seemed to contradict itself and that is why I came to TFO.

---

Tom, thanks for the advice, here are some of the weeds in my grass... If anyone knows a name, I will look them up on The tortoise table or in my weed app:

---

I think the 3rd pic is henbit which is bad for torts