Advise/help with temps fro my Russian

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Donna C Kelly

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Hi everyone!
I have been a stalker for a little over a year! Unfortunately, until now I have not been able to post pics and therefore ask for help. I KNOW that you will all ask for pics! lol
Sooo. here goes, I have a Russian and her name is Tallulah Belle. She is 1 yr and 7 months. I purchased her at 3 months.
My hubby & I made her a larger indoor pen 3 months ago. She was in an underbed storage bin prior to this enclosure and VERY happy. Now she no longer seems happy.
The enclosure is 2 levels: the top level is 13 inches wide & 58 inches long.
The bottom level is 30 inches wide & 58 inches long. I have a small amount of cypress mulch & coir on the cool dry side and coir in 3/4 of the remainder of the enclosure.
Daytime temps:
cool/dry side 74-75
cool hide: 72
Basking temp: 95-100
Humid hide: 83 with 51% humidity
upper level: 79
wooden house: 78
The humidity is usually 50%

Nightime temps:
humid hide: 82 with 51% humidity
Basking: 95-100
Cool side 74
Upper level: 80-81
Wooden house: 82- 83
Cool/dry hide: 74
Cool dry side: 76
I have heat ropes under 2/3rds of the enclosure with 4-5 inches of coir.
I have some fake & real plants.
Tallulah is ALWAYS on the upper level in the wooden house. I take her out, put her under the heat lamp and she will eat. When she is done eating she retreats to the upper level in the wooden house.
I soak her every day since she is always where it is dry. On occassion she has stayed in her hot/humid hide all night and sometimes during the day. She has also used the dry/cool hide to sleep overnight or under the paver that is at the botoom of the stairs. However, she seems to prefer the wooden house. Maybe she thinks I would feel bad if she didn't use it since I painted/decorated it for her! lol
I am at my witts end and after many attempts with temps & lights I feel as though she is not happy and doesnt roam her enclosure.
I had a fecal done & she is all cleared of parasites/worms.
She is pooping/peeing & eating after she is soaked.

I appreciate any adivse that you can give me.
I apologize for the length of this post. I just wanted to provide as many details as I could.
On the hot side (to the far right) I have a Zoo Med 100 watt MVB(on at 6:30 & off at 8)
To the left of the MVB I have a 100 watt CHE (on for 24 hours)

I thank you ALL again for whatever help/advise that you can give me.
She does go up and down the ramp very easily.
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UGGGH! I HOPE that you can see ALL the pictures!:D
Thank you everyone! I look forward to hearing from ALL of you! PLEASE be kind! lol[/b]
 

kimber_lee_314

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What a cute enclosure!!!! It sounds like you're doing everything right. How long are you leaving the lights on?
 

Spn785

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You need to leave lights on for about 14 or 15 hours, not sure if you meant 6:30 am to 8 pm or not, you do not need a CHE. Night time temps are too warm for a Russian, they need to get down to 58-65 at night. Your basking spot is a little warm too, 90-95 is warm enough for that. Cool side should be 70-75 and warm side should be 80-85 with a gradient. beyond that everything sounds good, and your little girl might just be getting used to her new living space still. Keep us updated! Thanks for all the pics! :)
 

Laurie

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I agree with Spn. Your night time temps are too warm for a Russian. My Russian enclosures drop to 62* overnight. I have three Russians in three different enclosures, I also don't like the basking spot 95-100, I think its ok, but I like to keep mine right around 92*, especially for my younger, smaller tortoises, they can dehydrate quickly under those heat lamps. I keep my cool side in the low 70's also.

It looks like you have a lot of lights and thermometers in there! I couldn't tell from your post how long your lights are on, mine are on timers and come on @530am and go off @ 8pm. You do not need a CHE for nighttime, I also don't think you need the heat ropes under the coir.

Your enclosure is very cute! Very nice pictures :)
 

Donna C Kelly

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Thank you soo much for your reply and advise! I really appreciate it!
I have always used the heat ropes..it helps with the humidity.
I started using the CHE day/night due to the coir being too cool ontop in the 70's. The humid hide's ambient temp was 70 & lower without the CHE.
I thouhgt that humid and cool was not good?


THANK YOU!!! A lot of planinng & thinking went into the enclosure, We were striving to cover ALL the bases the first time! LOL


The lights are on timers. They go on at 6:30am & off at 8:00 PM. I also have a tube florescent (daylight bulb) in the middle.
I will try to lower the temps.
When the enclosure was cooler she stayed under the paver at the bottom of the steps. If I didn't take her out she'd stay there for days.
When I started using the CHE she started using her humid hide.
She has been sooo inconsistant with where she goes & stays that I guess im not used to her being like that. I'm also at my witts end trying to figure out what to do for her.
She is never out anymore unless I phsically take her out from where she is & soak her under the MVB then she will then eat & then retreat.
It's weird.
She has been in this enclosure for 3 months now:(
 

Laurie

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The information you see on here about high humidity is advice suited for sulcata and leopard tortoises. Russians don't require a humidity that high. Your 50% humidity is good. I keep my russians enclosures between 40-60% humidity, you can let your temps drop at that humidity. The high temps at night some use for sulcatas and leopards are because they're humidity is 80%+.

I use a mixture of coir and dirt for my substrate. I spray it twice a day, and churn it up probably every week or so. The thing I like about it is the top stays dry, gets a nice "crust" to it, yet is easily diggable for them to get to the moister, cooler underneath. I try to keep the substrate underneath moist enough that it can be kind of squeezed together in a ball, but not too wet that it would be dripping. All of my russians burrow into this at night, regardless if its in their hides or not, they all bury themselves the majority of nights.
 

Spn785

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:) Cold and humid is not good, but cool, 58-65 at night and 70-75 cool side, with 50% humidity is okay.
 

Donna C Kelly

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Thank you sooo much!
Curious...what do u use to spray the coir/dirt?
When I use to spray the coir no matter how much I sprayed, it would ry up in no time. I use a large garden sprayer that you pump.

Do you pour water in the bottom to keep it moist? If not then how do you keep it moist on the bottom?
Since I have the heat ropes I make holes & pour hot water so it goes down to the bottom.

Let me see if I understand...65-70 degree temps with 50% humidity is good/okay?

OMG! my poor Tallulah..I'm must be making her nuts by not having temps the way she wants them :(
Aslso, do I have the lights, food & water in the right places?
What temps would a Russian be inactive at?
PLEASE forgive ALL of my questions. I truly want to get this right for her.
 

Tom

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What were the temps and light cycle like in her old enclosure?
 

Donna C Kelly

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Light cycle was the same. To be honest, I don't recall the temps..but she would bask & use her hide all the time. I keep the heat rope temp at 85 & the ambient temp was 80-85 & she used it ALL the time.
She would always come out to eat by 7 or 7:30. Now I have to take her out.
In this enclosure I had the heat rope set to 85 & the bottom surface was too too cool. I'm guessing it could be because I have the 27ft rope in this enclosure & in the smaller enclosure I had the smaller legnth rope.
What should I keep the heat rope temp at? OR better yet ..what should the very bottom temp be & I maybe I can take it from there. :)Thank you sooo MUCH for your help!
 

Eloise's mommy

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It's a cute enclosure hopefully after you get the temps adjusted she will roam around it a bit and start to enjoy all that space!!! If she likes it upstairs so much maybe try turning the ropes off one day and see if she is roaming more? maybe the lower part is too warm because of the ropes??
 

Donna C Kelly

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Hi Tom,
I was honored to hear from you & wanted to hear more from you. Even though I don't have a Sulcata I read all of your posts. You are very knowledgeable.
I also have had any more replys to my original post.
I shut the CHE yesterday & lowered the heat ropes to 90 & at the very bottom of the coir the temp is 74-77 in most places, is that too cool? The humidity overall (on the bottom level) is 65. The top layer of the coir is 71-73 in most places on the bottom level of the enclosure.
The temp in the humid hide is 81.5 with the ambient temp being 77.
Those temps are all with the lights off and its 6:15am.
When the MVB goes on only that general area will heat up to higher surface layer temps' the rest of the temps will pretty much stay the same.
In the past at these temps she stayed buried in the cool/dry side.
The 2nd level will average 71-73 & 74 in the wooden house. Is that too cool for her to be able to come down the ramp?
I'm soo sorry for ALL the questions. But with all my stalking for sooo long I guess I still didn't understand all the info.
On both sides of the enclosure closer to the walls (back & front)of the enclosure, the temps are always cooler too.
I look forward to hearing from you.
 

Spn785

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With the temps that warm, I would turn off the heat ropes completely. Humidity probably needs to drop a little 65% is okay but personally I wouldn't let it go over 60% with a Russian.
 

Laurie

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Again, I agree with Spn. I'd get rid of the heat ropes and drop the humidity. I keep my subtrate moist underneath by dumping water into it and churning it up every week or so. I use a garden sprayer to spray it daily, I try to concentrate on the corners so the water absorbs underneath, I give the top a light spray, someone once said to me, "like morning dew".

Low 70's is not too cool for a russian, she should be active at those temps.
 

Donna C Kelly

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Thank you!
I think the humidity is higher than normal in the enclosure because I had some windows opened last night, since it's has been a bit warmer here, in New Jersey & its also very humid. My humidity in the enclosure is never that high.

My coir is very moisit at the bottom of the enclosure. I fear that if I turn the heat ropes off & she burrows it will be too cold. :( I have NEVER not used the heat ropes. So I'm a bit worried about turning them off. What should the temps be at the very bottom?
How do I keep the humid hide warm if I shut the heat ropes and there is no heat at night?
UGGGH! I am sooo sorry for ALL the questions.
 

Spn785

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Donna C Kelly said:
Thank you!
I think the humidity is higher than normal in the enclosure because I had some windows opened last night, since it's has been a bit warmer here, in New Jersey & its also very humid. My humidity in the enclosure is never that high.

My coir is very moisit at the bottom of the enclosure. I fear that if I turn the heat ropes off & she burrows it will be too cold. :( I have NEVER not used the heat ropes. So I'm a bit worried about turning them off. What should the temps be at the very bottom?
How do I keep the humid hide warm if I shut the heat ropes and there is no heat at night?
UGGGH! I am sooo sorry for ALL the questions.

Don't worry about asking questions, it is a very good thing. :) If the surface temp of your coir is low 70's then then underneath the surface will be warm enough. I would not worry about keeping the humid hide warm either. During the day the humid hide will be warm enough due to increased ambient temps and your basking light creating heat. at night the temp will fall, but that is good.
 

Laurie

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Wet and cold are not good. The humidity and temperatures you are talking about are not wet and cold. They're more moderate. Moist and cool are good. I don't monitor my temps at the "bottom" of the substrate, they're not on a cold floor. I also do not use a humid hide with my Russians. I try to maintain my humidity between 40-60%, Its usually in the upper 40's to low 50's. At those humidity levels, temperatures of around 60*F isn't a problem with Russians.
 

Donna C Kelly

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WOW! I feel like an idiot.
Ok I will turn off the heat ropes! LOL I also turned off the CHE yesterday.
Now with that said...how do I keep the hide warm withouth them since the basking light and CHE are not going to be on at night?
Wont the bottom surface of the coir be too cool since it will be moist? What should the surface temps (bottom of the coir) be?
What should the top layer of the coir be & the overall ambient temps be?

UGGH! I am soo glad that I have met SUCH WONDERFUL informatitive people on this forum! I LOVE my little girl (Tallulah) and only want what is best for her.
Thank you all again!
 

Spn785

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Donna C Kelly said:
WOW! I feel like an idiot.
Ok I will turn off the heat ropes! LOL I also turned off the CHE yesterday.
Now with that said...how do I keep the hide warm withouth them since the basking light and CHE are not going to be on at night?
Wont the bottom surface of the coir be too cool since it will be moist? What should the surface temps (bottom of the coir) be?
What should the top layer of the coir be & the overall ambient temps be?

UGGH! I am soo glad that I have met SUCH WONDERFUL informatitive people on this forum! I LOVE my little girl (Tallulah) and only want what is best for her.
Thank you all again!

:) During the day your basking temp should be 90-95, warm side 80-85 (on the surface of the coir), cool side 70-75 (on the surface of the coir). Night time should be 58-65 on the surface of the coir. Measuring temps on the surface of the coir is fine since that is a good enough gauge of ambient air temps.
 

Donna C Kelly

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Hi again!
I wanted to give you all an update on Tallulah's current temps.
humid hide: 77, 62% humidity
Basking area: 93
Small area around the MVB the temps are 78, 85, 70 & 72 (about a 1/4) of the enclosure is warmer (nearest the MVB) & the rest are cooler temps. That's why I added the CHE to have a bigger area of warmth. I'm no longer using the CHE.
Under the 2nd level: 68
On the side front part of the enclosure: 69
Cool/dry side 72
Cool Hide; 72
Wooden House (on the 2nd level):72
Second level: 70 now & 72-73 during the day

The Humidity during the day was 44%
Now at 10PM the humidity is 56% on the bottom of the enclosure & on the 2nd level the humidity is 33%

My question is ...why is she still staying in the wooden house ALL day & night now that the temps are cooler? For the past 2 days I still need to take her out of the house, soak her under the MVB & then she will eat. She has more energy after being soaked and warmed up & she also eats more.
Yesterday I didn't soak her and just put her by her food & she was sluggish while eating & didn't eat very much.
Why isn't she moving to the basking spot on her own or to the other areas of the enclosure?
I'm sorry once again for ALL the questions.
Thank you sooo much for your help!
I REALLY appreciate it :)
 
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