Advice on Russian Setup

Erisna

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Mar 31, 2020
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Hello there, this is my first post on this forum.

My situation with the female Russian tortoise I’m posting about is kind of unusual. She’s not actually mine; she’s part of the reptile collection where I work, where she’s used as an educational animal to teach kids about tortoises and reptile care. IIRC she came to my workplace in 2012, way before I worked there, as a rescue of unknown age and origin; she reportedly had MBD and shell rot, and at one point her shell was so soft it could be deformed by touching it. That is healed now, and other than some scarring and deformation her shell is healthy.

I was recently given charge of the reptile collection; though I love reptiles and consider myself relatively knowledgeable, most of my experience is with snakes and lizards. So I’ve been frantically researching to see what her care requirements truly are and what needed to be changed. I’ve read every care sheet I could find, including the one on this forum. Most of the collection came home with me for the covid-19 quarantine, so I have time to mess with things for the first time in a while.
CC33D313-49EA-45CA-9F04-B311B0688FF0.jpeg
The tort in question, walking around to dry off after a soak.

A list of things I have changed since I took over:

1. started soaking her much more regularly, trying for 2-3 times a week. She wasn’t being regularly soaked before.
2. upgraded her just yesterday from a 40 gallon breeder tank to one that’s 4’ by a little less than 2’. I know this tank isn’t ideal, not big enough and not the best material; however, where she is housed we literally do not have another option at the moment. We do not have outdoor space and our indoor space is extremely limited. The tanks are not on display, so we aren’t advertising too small housing to the public, but the absolute instant I have another option I will move her.
Old tank: (right)5BC3BE91-F0AB-4990-B010-0DF1C04BB423.jpeg
new tank: (ignore Marty the corn snake being nosy)70F63014-06AE-4294-B5B4-E8BB13932E47.jpeg

3. Increased her basking temps and changed style of UVB light. The new basking spot runs about 93-98 F, and the UVB changed from the cfl style to the tube style. I will get a replacement tube as soon as this craziness is over, I don’t know how old the one in it is now. (It’s also a 5.0 UVB, and I think it needs to be a 10.0? Opinions welcomed)

4. Adjusting her diet; historically she’s been fed primarily kale with reptical tortoise pellets and calcium supplement daily. I’ve ordered the tetsudo seed mix and will start feeding her that once it grows, and trying to add some Timothy hay on advice of our vet. (I live in an apartment complex that definitely treats with pesticides and herbicides, I don’t trust anything growing outside here.) Her appetite has been very poor recently, I’m hoping the increased temps and hydration will bring her around.

I came here to start checking in with knowledgeable people with more tortoise experience; I want to know if there’s anything else I can do to make her life better, other than getting her a bigger enclosure.

one more request... could we try to keep things civil regarding the people who had charge of the collection before me? They were doing their absolute best with nearly no resources or support, and what’s done is done now. I’d just like to see what I can improve on going forward.

Thanks for your time and advice! I really appreciate y’all helping me care for miss Tesla properly.
 
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Yvonne G

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The tortoise would be much better off in a large plastic bin. I know it's the wrong time of year for it, but maybe you can find one online: the Christmas Tree Storage Bin mfg'd by Iris is about 4' long and would be a much better fit for an adult Russian tortoise that has to live indoors. Of course, bigger than that is even better, but that would do in a pinch. Plus, it has wheels on one end if you need to move it around. Once you get a bigger tub, then the tortoise also needs a bigger hiding place. You can get a plastic dish pan fairly cheap, then cut a door out of one end.

The Christmas tree bin comes with a lid. You cut holes in the top for the lights. Your tortoise needs a good UVB light. I like the tube type fluorescent bulbs. https://www.reptilebasics.com/t5-light-fixtures/
Then for heat I use a CHE (ceramic heat emitter): ceramic heat emitter.jpg


Just a note of information, in case you decide to keep the set up you're using - UVB rays are not able to penetrate the fine mesh of the screen you have over that tank.
 

Tom

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Sounds to me like you've got a good handle on the situation.

  • You definitely need a different UB tube. That one s doing nothing but adding light to the enclosure, which is good, but doesn't help the tortoise meet its D3 needs. What you want is the newer HO type. These produce much more UV. And any 5.0 bulb produces hardly any UV. Always go for the 10.0.
  • The moss looks nice, but they eat it and it can cause an impaction. I'd remove it ASAP and save it for a snake, frog, or lizard cage that needs it.
  • Russians are not grass eaters and offering Timothy hay is a waste of time.
  • There is a lot of misinformation on tortoise care and feeding out there. Its daunting for new people. Their primary diet should be broadleaf weeds. Romaine has little nutrition, low ca and low fiber, kale has compounds that are bad for them in excess. Grocery store greens can work, but you need to add stuff to them to make them better. Soaked Zoomed Grassland pellets, blended up soaked grass hay, Mazuri, herbal hay from tortoisessupply.com, and Will @Kapidolo Farms has all kinds of dried leaves that you can mix in with your romaine to make it a better food for your tortoise.

    Find sources of weeds and things growing locally in safe areas that aren't chemically treated. Looks for signs of insect life. Ants nearby, spider webs, holes chewed in the leaves, etc... Learn to ID your local weeds. Soon the mulberry leaves and grape vine leaves will be back. Find some established sources for those. Get some opuntia pads and plant them in pots if you have no safe areas outside for them.

    You can also set up an indoor rack system with LED plant bulbs and trays of soil, and start growing your own stuff from seed.

    There are sooooo many things you can do that would be better than buying food at the grocery store. Here is a small starter list of good tortoise foods:
    Mulberry leaves
    Grape vine leaves
    Hibiscus leaves
    African hibiscus leaves
    Blue hibiscus leaves
    Rose of Sharon leaves
    Rose leaves
    Geraniums
    Gazanias
    Lavatera
    Pansies
    Petunias
    Hostas
    Honeysuckle
    Cape honeysuckle
    Leaves and blooms from any squash plant, like pumpkin, cucumber, summer squash, etc...
    Young spineless opuntia cactus pads

    Weeds:
    There are soooooooo many...
    Dandelion
    Mallow
    Filaree
    Smooth Sow thistle
    Prickly Sow thistle
    Milk thistle
    Goat head weed
    Cats ear
    Nettles
    Trefoil
    Wild onion
    Wild mustard
    Wild Garlic
    Clovers
    Broadleaf plantain
    Narrow leaf plantain
    Chick weed
    Hawksbit
    Hensbit
    Hawksbeard

    Other good stuff:
    "Testudo Seed Mix" from http://www.tortoisesupply.com/SeedMixes
    Pasture mixes or other seeds from http://www.groworganic.com/seeds.html
    Homegrown alfalfa
    Mazuri Tortoise Chow
    ZooMed Grassland Tortoise Food
  • If your house and work don't have suitable areas for finding broadleaf weeds, find someplace that does. Its a big world out there with lots and lots of weeds. Find a vacant lot or untended roadside area. Someone near you must have a mulberry tree, grapevines, or a big hibiscus bush. If you must use grocery store greens, favor endive and escarole as your main staples. Mix in arugula, cilantro, collard, mustard and turnip greens and many more for variety, and add those amendments.
  • Use a calcium supplement with D3 in it since UV isn't possible right now. And/or use some original Mazuri as a food supplement.
  • Enclosure size: The tortoise doesn't care about your space restrictions. It needs what it needs. Keeping them in tiny enclosures is bad for their health. There is no way around that, and saying it in a more diplomatic way doesn't change this fact. If the current situation prevents someone from providing any animal with what it needs to survive and be healthy, then the animal needs a new home. Many reptiles do fine in small enclosures. Tortoises do not. They need room to roam inside their safe enclosures. Much like a horse, locomotion helps with gut motility. If your workplace doesn't have the space for a large tortoise enclosure, then it doesn't have space for a tortoise. How about a large kiddie pool or horse watering trough on the floor somewhere? You can put walls and legs with wheels on a 4x8' sheet of plywood, and move the enclosure to and fro to keep it out of the way. I'm limited on indoor space too. This is why I don't have a lot more of the animals that I would like to have.
 

Erisna

Member
Joined
Mar 31, 2020
Messages
25
Location (City and/or State)
Florida
Thanks for the advice and tough love, y’all, I appreciate it. I didn’t realize that was why a large enclosure was always recommended for tortoises, but it does make sense. Believe me, if I had a choice I wouldn’t’ve gotten a tortoise; not too long ago I turned down a person who wanted to donate a subadult Redfoot to us because I knew there was no way we had enough space for two tortoises. This whole reptile collection kind of got dumped into my lap and I’m trying to do the best I can with it. ?

So to summarize for my own brain, it seems like there are three big things I need to focus on:
1. Even bigger enclosure (underlined three times and bolded)- I’ll see how creative we can get with our space as soon as I’m allowed back to work. If we truly can’t find a solution I’ll recommend rehoming her to my bosses and try and get that set in motion.
2. Diet- the tetsudo seed mix is already in the mail, I’ll get her started on those plants ASAP. In the meantime next time I go grocery shopping I’ll try to get my hands on endive or escarole and doctor it like Tom suggested. (From what I’ve read I think our bearded dragon would like that too, so that’s a plus!)
3. UVB- replacing the tube with a different type. Is this what you mean by RO, Tom? https://www.petco.com/shop/en/petco.../zoo-med-reptisun-100-uvb-t5-ho-lamp-24-watts
If so I’ll get one the next time I have to pick up snake or lizard food; we have an agreement with a local pet store and they don’t do online ordering, and I’m trying to not go out any more than absolutely necessary. In the meantime, we went outside and got some sunlight. :)
6668329C-3352-41E1-B113-215B71D5F3BE.jpeg8AC9FA87-ADC7-4BE5-8523-65C826C97AFF.jpeg
Thank y’all for helping me get the care for this little lady up to good standards. I really want to practice what I preach to our visitors and make sure she’s taken care of properly.
 
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