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Tortoise

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Hello

Two of my newer hatchling Hermanns are unwell quite suddenly too.
There does not appear to be a respiratory problem-nose is clear, breathing normal etc.

One tortoise seemed to have something on his eye a couple of days ago so I soaked him lots and managed to gently wipe away some debris-quite likely substrate(Cypress mulch/bark)
He wouldn't open his eye so I left him be.
Two days later still one eye closed-it is a little swollen too.
He is not eating but was eating dandelions, clover etc a few days back.
Just not making efforts and I am unsure if he even is regulating own temperature enough.I am afraid he will slip away on me.

The other hatchling has no physical problems , just listless, not eating, lots of hiding etc.
I have soaked lots and eyes are clear and bright etc.
Again no effort made to eat and be active.

I guess I wonder what to do for the best here-I have eye ointment on hand that we use on alpacas. I have a vet that doesn't know what to do with reptiles really.
I wonder whether I should make up a mash and try and force feed-but being such tiny babies I am unsure if this is possible without too much stress.
I can put food in the water but They just sit there and I am unsure if they will take any of the soak water in?

Up until now they have been great-eating lots, very active, smooth growth etc-any suggestions?

My light is a MVB and they have their bask temp in the 90's, they can get down into 70's under moist hide with moist spaghnum moss etc.
Other areas are cooler too outside of hide.Their light is on a timer for 12 hours a day.

They are sitting in heated area by choice but I worry they may dehydrate as they don't move around very much at the moment like the other babies do.
These 2 are away from the others for observation.

Thanks
 

irishshake

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I don't know too much but the mvb basking light has known to cause blindness from what I read it is to bright unless it is placed very far away from the enclosure . I temporary was testing one out and it even blinds me if I look anywhere near it . Mine was 160 watt though and it's apparently meant for 50" above substrate . Very big enclosures .
 

Laurie

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The first thing I would do is re-check all of my temperatures. The basking spot should be 95f-100f, with a decreasing temperature gradient as you move away from the light. Sounds like you are doing this, but it doesn't hurt to double check.

You also want to make sure the MVB you are using is not the coil type bulb. They have been known to cause eye problems.

I would also start with some baby food soaks. They do absorb some of the water/nutrients from the soak. I would soak daily for about 30 minutes, making sure the water is between 85-95F. Are you doing daily soaks?

If you don't see any improvement in eating/activity levels soon, I wouldn't hesitate to visit a vet, because babies can deteriorate quickly.
 

wellington

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cjcantelon said:
I don't know too much but the mvb basking light has known to cause blindness from what I read it is to bright unless it is placed very far away from the enclosure . I temporary was testing one out and it even blinds me if I look anywhere near it . Mine was 160 watt though and it's apparently meant for 50" above substrate . Very big enclosures .

That is the coil light that causes blindness, eye problems. The MVB can really only cause problems if too close or on an angle.

Moist hides should not go below 80. Wet and cold can cause problems, sickness, even death. A dry area can go down to 70, if your species takes that low of temps.
I would make sure the all over temps for the sick ones not go below 85 with still a basking site. You don't want sick babies to get cold. The carrot baby food soaks, I would do, as stated, they can still soak it in. What is the humidity, I believe hermanns should be around 50-60 %. good luck, hopefully more experienced members will help you out.
 

Jacob

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The best thing you can do is try to bump up there temps a little and keep a little hotter and see how they do in 2-3 days.
 

kimber_lee_314

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I agree ... increase the heat and humidity - soak them daily in the baby food soaks. The eye ointment won't hurt so I would try that too. If they don't improve I would get them on Baytril.
 

Tortoise

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Thanks everyone!!
I panic with babies as they seem to go down very fast when they do and any hints and tips are really appreciated as you feel that you need to try everything in the hope they pull through.
I am not using a coil light(I don't use them), I use a MVB Reptisun type.
They are not using the moist hide-they are choosing to be near the bask light which is at around at hottest spot(its too hot I think now we adjusted the light-120)It was cooler and we made a new clamp for the lamp). I have a temp gun so I check all over their pen.The lowest temp is 70 in the whole enclosure( moist hide).Room temp is 75 in here.
I have no baby food but can puree carrots/sweet potato etc myself.
Its a long weekend here so shops are closed until Tues.
I have been soaking at least twice a day and I watch them constantly to make sure their water stays warm-keep changing it every few mins.
I have applied eye cream over the affected lid.
I can't find any Baytril here so may wait and see for 2 days and then I can get new Baytril next week.
 

Tortoise

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The babies are still the same aside from the fact the closed eye is beginning to open up after a few applications of eue ointment.
I have fed them both a soup of greens and vits etc via an eye dropper(easier than I had anticipated), still no interest in eating alone yet.

When would you consider Baytril etc?
They are very tiny babies 27g and 31 g only so need to be careful with drugs and dosage etc.
Any advice on when to go the antibiotic route?

Thanks
Louise
 

Tortoise

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UPDATE:D:D:D

My 2 baby Hermanns are now eating a little by themselves. I have been force feeding a soup(liquified dandelion, clover, plantain, vits and minerals) to them for quite a while with an eye dropper.
they soaked in baby food carrot water too once a day. Finally the sun is out and the temps warmed up, so now they are able to get some real UV outside and this really has helped them a lot.
their behaviour is still not what i would consider normal but we are progressing.the swollen eye cleared up with Terramycin eye ointment too.

I have seen evidence of urates and bowel movements too, they look normal thus far. I didn't give any meds in the end as I worried their internal flora would be compromised.

I wonder if they needed worming but for now I will just carry on as we have been doing as they have improved.
I will keep these 2 separated for quite some time from the others.

Thanks
 

Terry Allan Hall

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Sunshine is a great "tonic"...don't think I'd stress 'em w/ worming, just yet but here's trick: the color red makes tortoises extremely excited about eating...a drop of beet juice on their food might inspire their appetites.

Or, one of our members, Coastal, sells Marion Tortoise Red Sticks, which my four go nuts over...I'd be happy to send you a small sample so you could offer a little to your babies (soak one pellet per tortling and stand back!)...send me your snail-mail addy via PM if you'd like to try it.

Best of luck.
 

Tortoise

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Hi
Thanks that is really kind of you!
I have emailed you my address.
Thanks
Louise
 

CactusVinnie

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For tortoises that languish without having a certain illness, sun indeed is the best medecine- along with wild weeds. Have you an outdoor enclosure? Still morning freeze in Manitoba?
 

Tortoise

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CactusVinnie said:
For tortoises that languish without having a certain illness, sun indeed is the best medecine- along with wild weeds. Have you an outdoor enclosure? Still morning freeze in Manitoba?

Hi
Yes finally got sun made it up to 29 degrees today!!
The tortoises certainly eat well in the real sun I think we turned the corner with them and I am finally thinking positively and relieved not to have to force feed any more. Still lots of soaks too though and endless wild weeds here so we should make the most of the short Summer that we get. There is always a chance of frost at night in Manitoba so they all come in for peace of mind over night and I like to soak them when the weather has been so hot.
Thanks for your comments!
My try drying surplus weeds to improve Winter store greens too.
 
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