Adverse reaction to coco coir & topsoil mixture

[Erinelle]

Hello,
This is my very first post on the forum.
So glad to have found it. Seems like people here are very helpful. Unlike many of the FB groups where people are brutally bluggoned for opinions and comments. (I’ve not personally had anyone be rude but have seen others bullied for asking newbie questions!)

I’m not necessarily a newbie to the tortoise world.
I have 4 sulcatas. Three of them are hatchlings.
I’m working on becoming a holistic practitioner and animals are my second love.

Anyway, I have a question for ya’ll!
I’ve been obsessed with making my enclosure/habitat completely replicate the recommended specifications. 90° heat and 90% humidity.
**I have to be honest, I believe that tortoises in captivity are more mineral deficient and that’s were pyramiding happens; low minerals levels means they can’t keep their internal hydration at a high enough level so they pyramid if enclosure humidity is too low to accommodate. But that’s an entirely different subject all together; for another post!**

So the issue....
Our little guy, has had an adverse reaction.
I put he and my other hatchlings together in my closed chamber enclosure once before and his throat swelled. He had a swollen throat and puffy face. I caught it within a few hours the first time and was able to decrease the swelling with a few holistic remedies. He was back to normal about 4-5 days. I wasn’t sure if it was the substrate or the mix of humidity with the substrate that caused it.

So I tried it again. Same reaction. I removed them all and trying now to once again reduce swelling and have him return to normal.

I’m stumped. Has anyone else had this issue?
What other types of bedding would hold this humidity without molding; coco coir is amazing since it’s naturally antibacterial.

I have them all in an open enclosure where the humidity isn’t high enough but I’m just stuck....
I’ve been obsessed over replicating perfection for them but it’s becoming a huge frustration.
They get multiple soaks a day; water alone, carrot juice and mineral soaks. (My yearling has a perfect shell; using my mineral theory).

Any advice?

Here’s a picture of him and I have a video too bit not sure how to upload it here.

 

[KarenSoCal]

I've never heard of such a reaction, but I'm a newbie...only had my DT for a year. Someone will respond who has experience.

But welcome to TFO! All the info you need is here. You are correct about the FB groups. There is some good info there, but also a lot of not so good. Stick with advice from here, and you won't go wrong.

Oh...for the video, you have to upload to YouTube, then put a link here.

 

[Grandpa Turtle 144]

 

[Yvonne G]

Hi and welcome!!

My favorite substrate for babies is orchid bark.

 

[Erinelle]

Thank you for the nice words and warm welcome!!

I was able to get the swelling down (which I know a conventional vet would’ve prescribed antibiotics; just because it’s usually their first resort).

I’ve moved them to an open chamber with the same substrate and it doesn’t seem to bother him so I’m not sure what the issue could be but I’ll keep working to try and figure it out!

Thanks again tortie humans!

 

[Mac1967]

Thank you for the nice words and warm welcome!!

I was able to get the swelling down (which I know a conventional vet would’ve prescribed antibiotics; just because it’s usually their first resort).

I’ve moved them to an open chamber with the same substrate and it doesn’t seem to bother him so I’m not sure what the issue could be but I’ll keep working to try and figure it out!

Thanks again tortie humans!

Might be pesticides?

 

[TammyJ]

Hi and welcome! If you think it's the substrate, why don't you change it for orchid bark like Yvonne mentioned? Also, do you mind explaining what you mean by your "holistic" treatment of the condition? Is it an allergy or an infection? Wouldn't a vet be your best bet if you are not going to change the substrate? Just some thoughts.

 

[Erinelle]

Might be pesticides?

Hi! It’s not pesticide bc I’ve only used organic components but that was a great suggestion!

 

[Erinelle]

Hi and welcome! If you think it's the substrate, why don't you change it for orchid bark like Yvonne mentioned? Also, do you mind explaining what you mean by your "holistic" treatment of the condition? Is it an allergy or an infection? Wouldn't a vet be your best bet if you are not going to change the substrate? Just some thoughts.

Hi Tammy,
You’ll notice in my OP that this bark is what I’ve been using where there’s been a reaction.
You have a lot of questions and none of them really pertain to my original question and would require a lot of detail to answer.
I’m not sure why I would need a vet at this point? There’s nothing life threatening that I’ve not been able to resolve on my own.
So many inexperienced veterinarians “accidentally” kill or further injure exotics anyway so unless something is already life threatening, there’s no point in taking that route. But thanks for the suggestion.

 

[TriciaStringer]

Hello,
This is my very first post on the forum.
So glad to have found it. Seems like people here are very helpful. Unlike many of the FB groups where people are brutally bluggoned for opinions and comments. (I’ve not personally had anyone be rude but have seen others bullied for asking newbie questions!)

I’m not necessarily a newbie to the tortoise world.
I have 4 sulcatas. Three of them are hatchlings.
I’m working on becoming a holistic practitioner and animals are my second love.

Anyway, I have a question for ya’ll!
I’ve been obsessed with making my enclosure/habitat completely replicate the recommended specifications. 90° heat and 90% humidity.
**I have to be honest, I believe that tortoises in captivity are more mineral deficient and that’s were pyramiding happens; low minerals levels means they can’t keep their internal hydration at a high enough level so they pyramid if enclosure humidity is too low to accommodate. But that’s an entirely different subject all together; for another post!**

So the issue....
Our little guy, has had an adverse reaction.
I put he and my other hatchlings together in my closed chamber enclosure once before and his throat swelled. He had a swollen throat and puffy face. I caught it within a few hours the first time and was able to decrease the swelling with a few holistic remedies. He was back to normal about 4-5 days. I wasn’t sure if it was the substrate or the mix of humidity with the substrate that caused it.

So I tried it again. Same reaction. I removed them all and trying now to once again reduce swelling and have him return to normal.

I’m stumped. Has anyone else had this issue?
What other types of bedding would hold this humidity without molding; coco coir is amazing since it’s naturally antibacterial.

I have them all in an open enclosure where the humidity isn’t high enough but I’m just stuck....
I’ve been obsessed over replicating perfection for them but it’s becoming a huge frustration.
They get multiple soaks a day; water alone, carrot juice and mineral soaks. (My yearling has a perfect shell; using my mineral theory).

Any advice?

Here’s a picture of him and I have a video too bit not sure how to upload it here.

View attachment 260921

To upload a video, first upload it to you tube and then post the link.

That is your year old sulcata in the picture?
Also, the new hatchlings need to be quarantined away from your yearling for 3-6 months to be sure they do not have any new illness that could harm your yearling. Also, are the hatchlings from the same breeder?

I recommend fine grade orchid bark as well.

 

[Erinelle]

Hi,
I didn’t realize there was a response....
No this is definitely not my yearling in the picture. I think we’d have bigger issues if that was the case!!

He was a hatchling, in this photo.
I know all about the importance of quarantine; however they are kept separate regardless of age.
Two are from the same breeder not the same clutch/female.

I have them in fine orchid bark, that was the original concern; was his reaction to the bark. So I was asking if anyone heard of reactions and an alternate suggestion.

****Since this post, I’ve learned a lot about all of them actually. The swelling appears to be a mineral deficiency. I’ve been doing mineral soaks and actually made a muddy dirt mineral rub for their shells and so much has changed in all of their shells and their activity level so I can immediately see that I’m doing something right! Thanks ALL for the suggestions and help!****

 

[Yvonne G]

The subject title says an adverse reaction to coco coir. Coco coir and orchid bark are two totally different products. Coco coir is a coconut product, while orchid bark comes from fir trees. Maybe I've misunderstood???

At any rate, if you've had the same reaction using BOTH products, then put the two babies in the closed chamber and keep Mr. Allergic in a separate, covered enclosure. Try cypress mulch. If that causes the same reaction, try clean garden soil. You may find that the only way to keep this baby is in an open topped enclosure. You're gonna' have to experiment to find what works. He's probably one of those that didn 't make it in the real world.