Adult Leopard Tortoises - Humidity tolerances for outdoor enclosures and best heaters?

Texastravis

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This conversation is in regards to adult tortoises, not hatchlings. I will agree that all species of tortoise thrive in high humidity at young ages <2 years. Here in East Texas we do get quite a bit of rain and humidity. The redfoots, yellows, manouria, aldabras, and even sulcatas seem to do quite well outdoors with heated houses. As for leopards, they do not seem to thrive quite as well. I hate to admit it but over the years I have lost quite a few leopards. I lost (15) 2 year olds only about 3-4 months after moving outside at the start of summer. A few years back, my group of 6 adults had a severe disease, RTI, whatever you want to call it spread like fire. All treated and lost the 3 males but all 3 females lived. I attribute this to their size. I lost another female this last winter to a failed VE Radiant Heat panel (these are garbage buyer beware).

I am blaming cold weather, high humidity levels, and VE Radiant heat panels. The leo tortoises only get sick in winter, not in the dry hot summer. My leos houses, although insulated, have dirt/ground floors which probably means high humidity levels inside their houses. The garbage VE Radiant heat panels may keep the tortoise above 65-70 degrees on cold nights but they do not elevate their bodies to 105 degrees like a classic red bulb or ceramic heat emitter might do. This is important on cold snaps that last 3-4 days where the tortoise may be locked in its house. I have a buddy up the road who has leos outside and they do good. He is a bit older and uses old school red heat bulbs. I have also spoken with some older school folk and they recommend not even letting their grass get very high for grazing, too much humidity in the tall grass or "lawn-like" enclosures.

My thoughts on a new enclosure for leopards is to put a floor in it for humidity control OR do my normal ground floor but add 4" of sand/gravel to keep it dry as can be. House should be on a hill to keep as dry as possible. Heaters should actually be spot heat to guarantee that any day of the week the tortoise can elevate body temperature to 95+ degrees. Keep adult leopards in small groups of 2-3 with 4 adults as the absolute max. Also considering poly carbonate greenhouse boxes at the exit of the house. Maybe make them big enough to plant some cactus but ground should be kept quite dry. Their grazing area should be kept short and un watered.

I would be open to anyone's thoughts on this. May be overkill but tired of losing leos.
 

Neal

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Couple of questions about your leopards:

(1) The 15 2-year olds you lost, did you produce these? If not, what type of climate did they originate from? What was your transition process (as in, did you acclimate them by putting them outside for a small amount of time and gradually increase, or did you put them outside one day full time)?

(2) The adults you lost, how long did you have them? If you did not raise them, what sort of climate did they originate from?
 

Texastravis

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The hatchlings produced in Texas about 2 hours up road. Raised in my heated tortoise house. All did quite well and go to about year old with good growth. Slowly started moving outside to a shaded area with a few sun spots. It was under crape myrtles so not sure if that had something to do with it but I no longer put babies under crape myrtles. About 10'x10' area. This was another example of why I will never house 15 together again. 1 gets sick they all get sick. They showed no symptoms of illness, just each would stop eating and die a week later. I have seen this before in sulcatas as well. Not sure what it is called because it is not an URI from what I can tell.

Adults most are Texan born and raised but some not. If I buy an adult, whether here or somewhere else, it gets put by itself for a minimum 12 months inside hot house if it is winter or I will put it strait outside if it is summer and I try to leave him/her completely alone for a few months aside from tossing food out there.

I see what you are getting at with changes in climate but the problems usually came 6+ months after getting the tortoise or even 1-2 years. Regardless, we should all be keeping the tortoises within the same temperature and humidity ranges regardless of climate I would imagine.
 

Texastravis

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Looks like you are in Arizona. I believe leos do very well in your climate since it is so dry, correct?
 

Neal

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I've been fortunate enough to source most of my leopards locally, and have not had a single issue or cause for concern with them keeping them outside year round without providing any environmental adjustments, other than heat during the winter. Over the years I've received a lot of leopards from different parts of the country. Adults, juveniles and hatchlings. The younger the tortoise is, the easier for them to acclimate has been my experience. I've almost had no real success in truly acclimating adults that have come from other states. They typically require a different regimen of sorts, such as warmer temperatures at night, more moisture or different foods. I was curious if you sourced yours from hotter or drier areas, as that could play into what you're seeing.

There could be a wide variety of factors influencing what you're seeing, but it sounds like your winters are cold and wet, so you might be right that the low temperatures + high humidity are the likely culprit. There's a lot of individuals who have had success in high humid areas, such as Florida and Hawaii. Perhaps the difference between them and you is that their areas generally have more stable temperatures year round.

We have had wet winters the past two years, but the humidity is never consistent or never lasts longer than a couple of days. I can get away with keeping my leopards colder than some people do at night time, but our day-time, usually sunny, will heat up the tortoises body sufficiently enough even when the ambient temperature is cold.
 

Texastravis

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Thanks for the reply Neal. What heaters are you using from them? Like I said, I may not of had any issues if I just used some 100-150 watt ceramic or red bulbs for them so that absolutely every day they have the opportunity to raise body temperature 100+.

We had a cold snap and it was approximately 45 degrees this morning. I went to each leopard house and infrared gunned their shells. Tops of the shells were about 80, bottom about 70, ground about 70. In middle of winter I get similar results but slightly less. Something like 65-75. In my mind this is "ok" but probably not if it ends up being humid/wet or that temperature for weeks on end. Their houses are in a greenhouse frame and I intended on putting plastic on the greenhouse but never got it on. I will do it this next year but am now concerned that it will always be humid in the greenhouse since I like to do hydroponics and what not. Like I said, I am considering moving their houses entirely, rebuilding, and putting in heaters that allow them to raise their body temperature.

Still does not explain yearling summer deaths but I think that may have been a fluke. I would encourage everyone not to keep tortoises in too large of groups. If just 1 gets super stressed it will get some weird illness and give it to the others. I have seen it several times in multiple species.
 

Neal

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I just use a mid-sized oil filed heater. I keep them in an 8'*8'*4" insulated home and it does the job.

Your temperatures are good for adults, at least by AZ standards. What is your humidity like?
 

Texastravis

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I see oil filled heaters a lot with tortoises. That must be a northern thing because here in Texas I never see them. We see the typical fan heater. Do those type of heaters have a thermostat on them? What do you keep it at in their house?
 

Tom

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This conversation is in regards to adult tortoises, not hatchlings. I will agree that all species of tortoise thrive in high humidity at young ages <2 years. Here in East Texas we do get quite a bit of rain and humidity. The redfoots, yellows, manouria, aldabras, and even sulcatas seem to do quite well outdoors with heated houses. As for leopards, they do not seem to thrive quite as well. I hate to admit it but over the years I have lost quite a few leopards. I lost (15) 2 year olds only about 3-4 months after moving outside at the start of summer. A few years back, my group of 6 adults had a severe disease, RTI, whatever you want to call it spread like fire. All treated and lost the 3 males but all 3 females lived. I attribute this to their size. I lost another female this last winter to a failed VE Radiant Heat panel (these are garbage buyer beware).

I am blaming cold weather, high humidity levels, and VE Radiant heat panels. The leo tortoises only get sick in winter, not in the dry hot summer. My leos houses, although insulated, have dirt/ground floors which probably means high humidity levels inside their houses. The garbage VE Radiant heat panels may keep the tortoise above 65-70 degrees on cold nights but they do not elevate their bodies to 105 degrees like a classic red bulb or ceramic heat emitter might do. This is important on cold snaps that last 3-4 days where the tortoise may be locked in its house. I have a buddy up the road who has leos outside and they do good. He is a bit older and uses old school red heat bulbs. I have also spoken with some older school folk and they recommend not even letting their grass get very high for grazing, too much humidity in the tall grass or "lawn-like" enclosures.

My thoughts on a new enclosure for leopards is to put a floor in it for humidity control OR do my normal ground floor but add 4" of sand/gravel to keep it dry as can be. House should be on a hill to keep as dry as possible. Heaters should actually be spot heat to guarantee that any day of the week the tortoise can elevate body temperature to 95+ degrees. Keep adult leopards in small groups of 2-3 with 4 adults as the absolute max. Also considering poly carbonate greenhouse boxes at the exit of the house. Maybe make them big enough to plant some cactus but ground should be kept quite dry. Their grazing area should be kept short and un watered.

I would be open to anyone's thoughts on this. May be overkill but tired of losing leos.

Man I wish that you'd asked sooner. I could have really helped you before all those losses.

Your issue is that you let it get too cold. 65-70 is WAAAAYYYY too cold for a leopard. High humidity just makes this worse. I thought everyone knew that cold and damp = a sick tortoise. Make a proper insulated house with an insulated floor and set the heat correctly, and you'll never lose another one. Our annual temperates are similar, but you have higher humidity. I use water tubs in my outdoor night boxes to keep humidity a little higher than ambient. If you didn't use the tubs, your boxes would stay really dry with all the electric heat. In summer, I unplug my boxes. Every day is near 100, and nights could to 65, and its dry. In your area, you could leave the boxes plugged in so the temp doesn't drop below 80 with all the humidity there. In spring and fall we have warm sunny days, so I set the boxes to around 80. Nights here will be humid and cold (30s-40s) and my leopards are in their 80 degree boxes during that time. In winters its cold with daytime highs only reaching 50-55 during rainy periods and nights in the low 30's. I set my boxes to 86 at these times. They stay warm at night, and they can go out and graze during the day, but come back into the warm box after a while. This works great for me here. Never had a sick one ever. In fact, I've rehabbed sick one and got them healthy this way.

I'm using around 10 VE RHPs. Right now in all sorts of different ways. I've never had a problem. Only one failed and that was because it got submerged in a flooded underground enclosure. Don't know what happened with yours. Red bulbs and CHEs are not good for larger tortoises, and especially in the application where you are using them. Cold ground and cool ambient temps mean they will bask under them for far too long and this will "slow burn" the top of their carapace while never warming their core. CHEs work fine for babies and smaller tortoises indoors with a warm ambient temp, but not outside for larger tortoises with a cool ambient.

I just typed this up for someone with a hermanni in the UK, but this sort of system might also work for you if you can sort out the basking lamp temperature at carapace height. Some of the text isn't applicable to your situation because I wrote it regarding a temperate species, but I left it in because its all explained:
The issue is that your climate isn't suitable for this species. This being the case, we need to offer a little help in the temperature department. Here is one way that I've worked out to do this here, and I think this would work well where you are:
"
IMG_7256.JPG



IMG_7257.JPG



IMG_7261 copy.JPG

This was built for two Chersina angulata which have similar temperature requirements to your hermanni. You could make yours with a single door and no divider, and you also might not need the water tubs. I use them because my humidity is extremely low here.

The mini radiant oil heater in the back is controlled by a thermostat. In early spring and late fall, I have it set to keep ambient night temp in the box at around 16C. Cool, but not so cold that they want to hibernate too early. During the day, the heat lamp kicks on and warms everything up, while also giving the tortoise an area to bask if it wants to. We've had rain, overcast and cold weather here for the last month. Very unusual for us this time of year, but it didn't matter a bit to my tortoises. They have a warm retreat, a way to get warm and function on a cold ugly day, and a reasonably warm, very safe place to sleep every night. During hibernation time, the box is unplugged. During our hot summers, with 37C+ daytime highs and 16C nights, the box is unplugged. In your climate, you'd probably want to run the equipment all year, except during hibernation."
{End copy/pasted info.}

You can order the mini radiant oil heaters. They work very well and are very efficient. I find them to be less desiccating and more reliable than the air type heaters. I always run them on a separate reptile thermostat because the ones that come with them are not reliable and will allow huge temps swings of 15-20 degrees. Here is one in use:

The other way to heat them is with a Kane mot on the floor of a well insulated box and an RHP over the top. Either one by itself is not enough and won't keep the tortoise warm enough. The two in combination work great together.
IMG_1939.JPG
IMG_1944.JPG

In any scenario, an insulated floor is a MUST. The cold winter ground will suck the heat out of them faster than an RHP or anything else can put it back. You are blaming the correct elements, but the mistake was not keeping them warm enough.

Something else to consider is trying the South African variety. They are a totally different animal. Different size, different eating habits, different personality, and they seem to handle cold and damp much better than the "regal' leopards due to where they come from. I much prefer them.
 

Texastravis

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Tom, I love the reply and info. Your awesome. I made the mistake of thinking Radiant Heat panels were enough it sounds like. I read and hear of other people successfully keeping leopards no problem with night time temps at 65-70 but I think these are in dry areas like arizona. Their houses are in a Greenhouse so my intention was maintain decent temps at night and they should be able to bask during the day no problem as long as there is some sun. The plastic has yet to be put on the greenhouse though. The current houses are CMUs, filled with insulation, and cracks spray foamed. (2) 1/2" sheets of plywood for the lid with a 3" thick foam iso board. Ground is not insulated though. Like I said, with temps in the 30s body temps were 65-75. During daytime with temps in 50-60, body temps in house were about 75-85. This past winter, most seemed to do well with a few runny noses though.

The adult sulcatas I have seem to do well with this. There insulated house has a fan heater in it set on 85 in day and 80 at night. Ground temps where they are at are more like 70-75 though. I keep a few radiant panels in there as supplement though. This floor is not insulated. I like the tortoises to be able to make a "mess". I am rethinking this though with the leopards.

I am now considering going a completely different route with leopard housing. I think I may keep these houses but keep them for the red foots, yellow foots, cherryheads, manouria, etc. Manouria actually do great in the cold for me. I may double up the radiant heat panels for the reds/yellows though. That way, I can turn the greenhouse "tropical" and go more tropical/shaded outside. That way, I can make use of what is there but go a completely different route with the leopards.

Tom, my thoughts are maybe to build a couple large 4'x8 boxes, split down the middle for 4 pens total. Each with a thermostat controlled oil filled heater in the middle set at a minimum of 80. Rather than CHEs or red bulbs, give each house a front porch cold frame/greenhouse for basking. Alternatively, 1 long house but it wont be moveable with 2 oil filled heaters for redundancy as well as an even spread of heat. I have no experience with the oil filled but it sounds like the closer you are to the heater, the warmer it is? Thoughts?

I will run my design by this forum and have it built before next winter.

Oh, you guys just going bare wood or putting in some kind of media in these wooden houses? Last enclosure I build like this was very heavy and the wood rotted fairly quickly. It was used with destructive sulcatas though.
 

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Texastravis

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Comment about the VE Radiant Heat Panels. I bought (4) 160 watt versions some time years ago. They still work great and are the old design with LED indicator of on/off. When designing and building these new houses, they had their newer versions available (max size 120 watt). I ordered 6 of them. Installed all of them and had 1 fail just a few months later. With my electrical equipment measuring which ones were getting power to each house, I realized that they were all flickering on and off, ALL OF THEM. It turns out there is an internal thermal switch on these that literally kicks the units off ever 5 minutes or something. So not only were they only 120 watts, they would not stay on all the time. I took apart the unit, removed the switch and it works again. I have removed the switches in most of my other units as well. The switches are very cheap micro switches that cost about 25 cents each from China and are meant as a safety switch not designed for constant switching.

Also, maybe I do not understand radiant heat but I could not even get a temperature probe to heat up under the dang things. I made a video testing this. When mounted in an enclosed box however they do somewhat raise the temperatures obviously. I tore apart each radiant panel and all it is is literally heat tape, insulation, and the shell of the unit.

 

Tom

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Comment about the VE Radiant Heat Panels. I bought (4) 160 watt versions some time years ago. They still work great and are the old design with LED indicator of on/off. When designing and building these new houses, they had their newer versions available (max size 120 watt). I ordered 6 of them. Installed all of them and had 1 fail just a few months later. With my electrical equipment measuring which ones were getting power to each house, I realized that they were all flickering on and off, ALL OF THEM. It turns out there is an internal thermal switch on these that literally kicks the units off ever 5 minutes or something. So not only were they only 120 watts, they would not stay on all the time. I took apart the unit, removed the switch and it works again. I have removed the switches in most of my other units as well. The switches are very cheap micro switches that cost about 25 cents each from China and are meant as a safety switch not designed for constant switching.

Also, maybe I do not understand radiant heat but I could not even get a temperature probe to heat up under the dang things. I made a video testing this. When mounted in an enclosed box however they do somewhat raise the temperatures obviously. I tore apart each radiant panel and all it is is literally heat tape, insulation, and the shell of the unit.

That is good to know about the new RHPs. I also have the old style with the white "lens" and haven't tried any of the newer type, so thank you for the excellent explanation.

As far as using the old style reliable ones, they do not project heat more than 10-12". I mount them to be about 6-8" over the top of whatever tortoise will be living under it. You can see this in my picture above. With the combo of an 80 watt Kane matt and an 80 watt RHP over head, I have no problem maintaining 80 degrees on a 28 degree night in my 4x4 insulated boxes. That is another key: Insulation. Neither of these devices produce all that much heat, which is kind of why I like them. Gentle heat with minimal risk to the tortoise, but it requires a sealed insulated box for them to work on a cold night.

The guy at Reptile Basics was very honest with me when I first bought my panels. I told him what I wanted to do with them, and he told me they weren't designed for that, and he really wasn't sure how well it would work for my purposes. I bought a couple different sizes and did a whole bunch of experimenting with them and watching my thermometers. I saw the limitations he was worried about, but when used correctly, they worked very well for me.
 

Tom

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Tom, I love the reply and info. Your awesome. I made the mistake of thinking Radiant Heat panels were enough it sounds like. I read and hear of other people successfully keeping leopards no problem with night time temps at 65-70 but I think these are in dry areas like arizona. Their houses are in a Greenhouse so my intention was maintain decent temps at night and they should be able to bask during the day no problem as long as there is some sun. The plastic has yet to be put on the greenhouse though. The current houses are CMUs, filled with insulation, and cracks spray foamed. (2) 1/2" sheets of plywood for the lid with a 3" thick foam iso board. Ground is not insulated though. Like I said, with temps in the 30s body temps were 65-75. During daytime with temps in 50-60, body temps in house were about 75-85. This past winter, most seemed to do well with a few runny noses though.

The adult sulcatas I have seem to do well with this. There insulated house has a fan heater in it set on 85 in day and 80 at night. Ground temps where they are at are more like 70-75 though. I keep a few radiant panels in there as supplement though. This floor is not insulated. I like the tortoises to be able to make a "mess". I am rethinking this though with the leopards.

I am now considering going a completely different route with leopard housing. I think I may keep these houses but keep them for the red foots, yellow foots, cherryheads, manouria, etc. Manouria actually do great in the cold for me. I may double up the radiant heat panels for the reds/yellows though. That way, I can turn the greenhouse "tropical" and go more tropical/shaded outside. That way, I can make use of what is there but go a completely different route with the leopards.

Tom, my thoughts are maybe to build a couple large 4'x8 boxes, split down the middle for 4 pens total. Each with a thermostat controlled oil filled heater in the middle set at a minimum of 80. Rather than CHEs or red bulbs, give each house a front porch cold frame/greenhouse for basking. Alternatively, 1 long house but it wont be moveable with 2 oil filled heaters for redundancy as well as an even spread of heat. I have no experience with the oil filled but it sounds like the closer you are to the heater, the warmer it is? Thoughts?

I will run my design by this forum and have it built before next winter.

Oh, you guys just going bare wood or putting in some kind of media in these wooden houses? Last enclosure I build like this was very heavy and the wood rotted fairly quickly. It was used with destructive sulcatas though.
That is a pretty cool tortoise compound, but had I seen this before you had any problem, I would have been telling you that I didn't think it would work for leopards.

I don't know why, but sulcatas seem to tolerate cold temperatures better than leopards. This makes no sense because there is NO cold where Sulcata come from. A cold day is in the high 80s, and most days are near or over 100. A cold winter night might drop to 68, but the sulcatas are underground in their burrows where ground temps year round are between 80 and 85. Leopards, on the other hand, live above ground and get cold in the wild all the time. There are stories of wild leopard tortoises walking through hunting camps in the morning with frost on their carapace from the previous cold night. I've seen lots of sulcata that somehow survive living outside with no heat or minimal heat. I don't see leopards surviving cold nights ever here in dry SoCal. They are known for being temperature sensitive, and getting sick at the drop of a hat if night temps drop. That 10 degrees difference between your sulcatas and leopards made all the difference. If you can get your leopards up to or above 80, I think you'll see a big difference in appetite, activity and over all health. I did.
 

TechnoCheese

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That is a pretty cool tortoise compound, but had I seen this before you had any problem, I would have been telling you that I didn't think it would work for leopards.

I don't know why, but sulcatas seem to tolerate cold temperatures better than leopards. This makes no sense because there is NO cold where Sulcata come from. A cold day is in the high 80s, and most days are near or over 100. A cold winter night might drop to 68, but the sulcatas are underground in their burrows where ground temps year round are between 80 and 85. Leopards, on the other hand, live above ground and get cold in the wild all the time. There are stories of wild leopard tortoises walking through hunting camps in the morning with frost on their carapace from the previous cold night. I've seen lots of sulcata that somehow survive living outside with no heat or minimal heat. I don't see leopards surviving cold nights ever here in dry SoCal. They are known for being temperature sensitive, and getting sick at the drop of a hat if night temps drop. That 10 degrees difference between your sulcatas and leopards made all the difference. If you can get your leopards up to or above 80, I think you'll see a big difference in appetite, activity and over all health. I did.
To add to sulcatas being hardy beasts when it comes to temperatures, My sulcata went missing for 5 days in the middle of winter where our high for the day went up to 65 once, 50 or lower the rest of the days, and lows of below freezing or slightly higher at night. He waltzed up to my front door on the 5th day like nothing happened, really cold but otherwise unharmed. Obviously temperatures like these would never be safe or ideal in the least bit, but it’s insane how much they can tolerate.
 
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Texastravis

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That is a pretty cool tortoise compound, but had I seen this before you had any problem, I would have been telling you that I didn't think it would work for leopards.

I don't know why, but sulcatas seem to tolerate cold temperatures better than leopards. This makes no sense because there is NO cold where Sulcata come from. A cold day is in the high 80s, and most days are near or over 100. A cold winter night might drop to 68, but the sulcatas are underground in their burrows where ground temps year round are between 80 and 85. Leopards, on the other hand, live above ground and get cold in the wild all the time. There are stories of wild leopard tortoises walking through hunting camps in the morning with frost on their carapace from the previous cold night. I've seen lots of sulcata that somehow survive living outside with no heat or minimal heat. I don't see leopards surviving cold nights ever here in dry SoCal. They are known for being temperature sensitive, and getting sick at the drop of a hat if night temps drop. That 10 degrees difference between your sulcatas and leopards made all the difference. If you can get your leopards up to or above 80, I think you'll see a big difference in appetite, activity and over all health. I did.

Thanks Tom, I agree with you. I am going to build some new houses. Also, I just found an ant bed in one of the houses so I am coming around to the idea that houses without floors are a bad idea. I moved that leopard to the hot house for now until I can get that ant bed sprayed. While on the subject, winter/night house flooring, what is the best in your opinion?

Treated plywood - Somewhat rot resistant but probably not the best at handling all the moisture from pee and poo
Hardiboard (cement fiber board) - I believe more moisture resistant than plywood so probably will hold up longer
Plywood topped with linoleum - Should protect the wood from the poo and pee pretty well. But in my experience, it will get torn up with sulcatas

Are you putting sand, mulch, etc as a substrate? I imagine it is more natural for the tortoises but might accelerate the floor rot but more importantly, may attract ants?
 

Texastravis

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MAybe some rubber horse stall mats? These are thick but might be able to be scraped up to pieces over time. There might also be a rubber odor issue if enclosed in a small air tight insulated house
 

Tom

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Thanks Tom, I agree with you. I am going to build some new houses. Also, I just found an ant bed in one of the houses so I am coming around to the idea that houses without floors are a bad idea. I moved that leopard to the hot house for now until I can get that ant bed sprayed. While on the subject, winter/night house flooring, what is the best in your opinion?

Treated plywood - Somewhat rot resistant but probably not the best at handling all the moisture from pee and poo
Hardiboard (cement fiber board) - I believe more moisture resistant than plywood so probably will hold up longer
Plywood topped with linoleum - Should protect the wood from the poo and pee pretty well. But in my experience, it will get torn up with sulcatas

Are you putting sand, mulch, etc as a substrate? I imagine it is more natural for the tortoises but might accelerate the floor rot but more importantly, may attract ants?
I build my boxes with plain plywood. I don't treat the inside with anything. For some tortoises, I don't put anything at all on the floor. For messy tortoises, like my big sulcatas, and SA leopards, I put down a thin layer of the native dirt. This makes it easy to scoop up the poo and muck with a flat head shovel as needed.

When feeding a lot of opuntia in summer, my SA leopard girls pee a lot. The corner of the box is always muddy and I'm constantly cleaning. The floor in this one box started to rot through after about 4-5 years. Easy fix. I simply stuck a plywood patch over the affected area. Four screws and it couldn't be easier. When the patch piece eventually wear through, I'll pull it off and put down a new patch. With over a dozen boxes in use for 10 years, this is the only box I've ever had a problem with.
 

Texastravis

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I build my boxes with plain plywood. I don't treat the inside with anything. For some tortoises, I don't put anything at all on the floor. For messy tortoises, like my big sulcatas, and SA leopards, I put down a thin layer of the native dirt. This makes it easy to scoop up the poo and muck with a flat head shovel as needed.

When feeding a lot of opuntia in summer, my SA leopard girls pee a lot. The corner of the box is always muddy and I'm constantly cleaning. The floor in this one box started to rot through after about 4-5 years. Easy fix. I simply stuck a plywood patch over the affected area. Four screws and it couldn't be easier. When the patch piece eventually wear through, I'll pull it off and put down a new patch. With over a dozen boxes in use for 10 years, this is the only box I've ever had a problem with.

Thanks Tom. Might just go with standard plywood or hardiboard and simply replace it as it rots. If I want it to last longer I could use a waterproof paint or perhaps cover it with a sheet of HDPE but it might actually be better to leave the wood exposed to absorb pee rather than the tortoise just sitting in a puddle.
 

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