adding a friend

[Diana Stone]

Hi, was wondering about adding a friend for my male leopard. I truly think he would like to have a buddy to pal around with. He is about 5-6" long and 4yrs old. It sounds like I should be looking for a female if I was to do this or would a young male be ok? Since they would both be young do ya think they would be ok?

 

[Maggie Cummings]

Tortoises are solitary animals and look at other torts as competition for the food, not as a buddy to play with. Other keepers disagree with that but that's my experience...

 

[Kristina]

This is copied verbatim from my website -

The idea of a tortoise being lonely for company is a human concept. The only reason to house more than one tortoise in the same enclosure is because YOU want to - either for mating, or because you may feel it is necessary. I would like to explain that it is not.

For the most part, reptiles are solitary animals, coming together only once a year for breeding purposes. Even the act of mating can be violent and potentially injurious, with male tortoises showing their wish to mate by ramming, flipping or biting the female.

I do not believe that tortoises can harbor such feelings as loneliness. They are solitary by nature, and any tortoise that is introduced into their habitat is seen as one of two things: A potential mate, or a threat/competition.

This is true for almost ALL reptiles. Very few live in any sort of a community setting in the wild.

Reasons why not to cohabitate:

Premature Pregnancy- Male and Female tortoises will often breed even if the female is younger than the recommend breeding age. This means your female may be at greater risk for egg impaction or other complications

Unwanted Pregnancy- As mentioned a male and female will breed, which can result in distress to the female, complications during pregnancy, and unwanted (by the owner) offspring

Spread of Disease and Parasites- Mites can be passed onto other reptiles by simply jumping to a new host. There are parasites and other diseases, that while possibly tolerated by one species, can prove deadly to another. I have seen countless instances of tortoises being introduced to another tortoise or group, without a proper quarantine, resulting in the death/illness of individuals or the ENTIRE group.

Unnecessary Stress- Most tortoises don't live in a community type systems and are better off on their own, only coming together to breed. Having more than one tortoise in an enclosure can cause stress for territory, food, and a mate.

Improper record keeping- It's hard to tell which tank mate may have defecated, urinated, produced gritty urates or bladder stones, if there is more than one reptile in an enclosure.

If you do choose to house more than one tortoise in the same enclosure, please take into account the following:

Are the tortoises of the same species/size? If not, do not cohabitate. Larger tortoises can cause injury and immense stress to smaller tortoises, and different species have different care requirements. Humidity, diet, and lighting are just a few examples of care issues that vary from specie to specie.

Is your enclosure large enough to comfortably house more than one tortoise? Lack of space can cause many health problems. If you cannot properly house one tortoise, do not expect that adding another will improve conditions.

Does your housing include sight barriers to reduce stress/aggression? Many species, such as Russian tortoises, can be very aggressive. Adding objects/landscaping to the enclosure that allow for hiding, and making sure that they are not constantly in each other's line of sight can help defray aggression.

Have you implemented a minimum 6 month quarantine period? Introducing a new tortoise to an established one without a minimum 6 month observation of the new tortoise's health and behavior can quickly prove injurious or deadly to your established tortoise. It is important to have new tortoises examined by a qualified reptile veterinarian, and tested for parasites. This is simply and inexpensively done with a fecal examination, and the cost is minor compared to the initial investment of a tortoise.

Following these steps and taking the above into consideration when deciding whether or not to cohabitate tortoises can save you a lot of heartache in the long run.

http://tortnet.darchorizons.com/cohabitate.html

Kristina

 

[Greg T]

I have two that are the same size as yours. They do seem to like each other, but also keep their distance but I'm not sure if that is simply their personality. One loves to be in the heat light while the other likes to go hide in the corner. I will find them both walking around together during the day though, so I do know they interact. Even outside they stay apart, but I do find them occasionally resting under the same plant. They eat together off the same plate with no problem at all.

I prefer to think they are friends and enjoy each other's company.

 

[TKCARDANDCOIN]

I have a female russian.I have had her for five years or so and last year i rescued a small male russian.After a long quarantine period i put them together.My female has never been so active!They eat together,sleep together...You name it!They seem to be the best of friends.I wish i would have had a mate for her all along, she just seems happy!

 

[Diana Stone]

Kristina, wow...thanks for that. Definately some things to think about.
The reason I think he would enjoy a companion is because when I am messing about in his habitat he always comes to see what I am doing. Always looking for a butt rub, he really likes those . I have had my 2 Russians and him out for some leg stretching excerise in the hallway and he was following them around and always wanted to sit next to them. I know, bad bad me for mixing them. They don't live together, its just play time sortaspeak. So, I will be thinking about this for a bit I guess.
Greg, thanks for your input.
I totally agree that Russians should have a buddy. The are definatley a social tort. My male and female just love each other.

 

[treshell]

Until now my vast knowledge came from 3 Texas brand. 12 yr. male, 17 yr. male, and a 27 yr. female. They used our place along a river for much of their day and all of their nights. I never saw them together in the day time but they all slept together in a pile under a favourite plant. Some times one of the boys would turn the other on to his back. Didn't find it a problem as they just turned back over using their very long and very muscled neck. the Males did not enjoy being watched by me. If they caught me they would quickly leave the yard. The female, my guess, had been a pet often in her life as she would run up to you to see if you had food. She liked to stand on your feet. She loved it when I would stop and get her lots of cactus tunas. The new owners have now been there 9 years. They still sometimes find one or more in the yard.
Treshell

 

[Diana Stone]

K, I think I would like to find a companion for my 5" male. Around here there are none to be found. I have seen only two. One of them I have now. There are hatchlings once in a blue moon.. But there is one advertised now that is a year and a half, said to be 2 1/2".
Bad idea to put them both together?

 

[Meg90]

Yes, the size difference is too great, and the little one would probably stop eating from stress.

 

[Diana Stone]

Yes, the size difference is too great, and the little one would probably stop eating from stress.

Probably should be closer to 4" then huh?

 

[Meg90]

With Russians, I really wouldn't recommend doing so at all...males can be so aggressive for their size, and females would be harassed all the time....

In the wild, tortoises have their own territories. They only come in contact with each other to mate, or fight over their territories.

In the wild, they would meet, size each other up, and then fight. The loser, doesn't get to mate, or claim the new spot, and would be driven out by the victor.

But see, in captivity, if you put two torts together, and they fight, and then one loses, the loser has no where to go.

So, the winner bullies him, because he doesn't understand why the loser hasn't left his territory yet. This bullying is done by claiming most of the food, chasing him away from the basking spot, and all together intimidating him.

The loser, by nature knows he has no claim to food or water now, because he has lost. So, he is constantly stressed because all he wants to do is get away, and he can't.

This is why the submissive tortoise hides all the time, and seems to just avoid the dominant animal.

So even though you would only see them FIGHT once, the poor guy that loses that fight, continues to be mentally tormented.

I really don't understand forcibly changing the nature of the animal because of a human emotion....maybe in an outside pen, a really large one, you could have more than one together, because it is a more natural setting, but in my opinion, it is sort of cruel to do it inside....

 

[Kristina]

Here is an article on Russians that I really feel you should read before you make the final decision to house two Russians together. I think the statements that Russians are social are well meaning, but misguided.

http://www.chelonia.org/articles/russiantortoisecombat.htm

I agree with Yvonne and Meg that if you are working with a large outdoor area with plenty of sight barriers, okay, give it a shot. But housing more than one in an indoor pen... Here we run into a problem.

Kristina