A few questions about my upcoming sulcata

thegame2388

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Team Gomberg said:
I think I'm failing.

Not for a lack of trying.

OP, I hope you understand, those of us chiming in are doing so with good intentions. We aren't against a "different" way, we are against ways once tried and failed.
Try to glean the wisdom from those been there done that. Saves time, $ and possibly the life of your tortoise.

So then what's the answer? I can't insulate nor do I know how. I'm not going to pay someone to do it for me. I already have the coco coir substrate in there. Should I bring it inside?

The heat is the main problem and I was observing the space heater and CHE doing the work and it worked at maintaining.

Regardless, where do I get those 25lbs Mazuri food bags? I can't find any online for the mid 20's price range. Someone help :(
 

Tom

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thegame2388 said:
So then what's the answer?... Should I bring it inside?

YESSSSSS!!!

It is MUCH easier to maintain an 80 degree ambient temperature in a closed chamber in a 70 degree living room or bedroom, than it is outdoors at 40 degrees.

Set up this small enclosure indoors, hopefully somewhere warm, and then make a nice outdoor enclosure for fair weather. Then your baby will have the best of both worlds. Here are some threads on outdoor enclosures:
http://www.tortoiseforum.org/thread-14680.html
http://www.tortoiseforum.org/thread-30683.html


Mazuri can be found at any local feed store. Any place near you that sells horse stuff should be able to order it for you. However, you have no need for a 25lb. bag and it will surely go bad before you use a fraction of it. One pound will last a baby for months. I have anywhere from 40-50 tortoises and a 25 pound bag still lasts me 3 months or more. You would be much better served by just ordering a small amount online, even though the cost per pound ends up being much higher. If you are near Santa Clarita, I will GIVE you some of mine.
 

mikeh

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Housing a hatchling outside in 41F temperatures will end up in disaster.

Even if you can get the temperature up inside the box unfortunately there will be a number of very risky factors compromising tortoises health.

1) Every time you open the box, the temperature will immediately drop to the temp of outside shocking the tortoise as hatchlings cant hold the heat for any period of time, risking respiratory infection.

2) The tortoise will spend ALL the time under the hot lights trying to keep warm. Even if the surrounding humidity is moderate, rest assure under those intense heat lights it is bone dry, and may chronically dehydrate internal organs slowly killing the hatchling.

3) If one of the heat sources burns out, the temps. will drop drastically. Forbid the power goes out at night, or when you are not home, the hatchling will be exposed to very low temps in minutes. Again, hatchlings don't hold heat. Even one short night or few hours at 41F may spell a certain death for a small hatchling. We have seen it not too long ago here on the forum, by unfortunate mistake a hatchling was left outside overnight on a cooler night. While it lived thru it, at the end it did not make it.

Please take the advice of others above, house your hatchling indoors, especially in winter.
 

Levi the Leopard

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Some of the feed stores in Norco sell the big bag and single pound bags. The cheapest I have ever found Mazuri and the only place I buy my bags from is my local CTTC Chapter. We buy the big 25lb bag and divide it up for re sale. I get a 2-2.5lb bag for $3.50. YUP! Best deal ever :p
Come to a club meeting and you can buy some, too! Riverside isn't too far from us in Chino.
 

thegame2388

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Thank you all for suggestions.

Now I have a serious newbie question:

I bought a warm air humidifier and placed it inside the enclosure...then drilled a hole top of it, put some clear tubing and put the tube outside w/ funnel so I can just pour water in the tube instead of taking out the humidifier.

Problem is, as soon as I drilled the hole, the humidifier leaks. This happened to my other one as well and I thought it was a manufacturing error. But no, it is something about pressure and now I don't know what to do!
 

Tom

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What you need to do is listen to the advice you've asked for. Or at least explain why you won't.

You don't need a humidifier. You have a great baby starting enclosure as is, if you would just put it in the house and cover up the holes you are drilling in it. That enclosure will be easy to heat and maintain good baby growing conditions, in any normal temperature controlled home.

If you can't or won't build, or pay someone else to build you a suitable enclosure for the great outdoors, and you can't have it inside then you are not a suitable home for a baby sulcata. What will you do in a few months when it gets bigger and needs a larger house, or when it gets much bigger, and needs to live outside with a heated house? Sulcatas come from a hot climate. In order to maintain them in OUR climate we must provide them with the proper facilities. What you are attempting there is not "proper facilities".

I think you ought to consider one of the Mediterranean species that can survive in your area outdoors without supplemental heat. An Eastern hermanni or a russian would do great with just a small shelter in a safe outdoor enclosure in your area.

Finally, you need to go into your UserCP and enable your incoming PMs if you want people to reply to you.
 

erica anne

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I wanted to mention that the "warm air humidifiers" are great at growing bacteria. Perfect environment for them. If you do use this you will need to clean it out often to prevent bacteria being released into the air.

I get my Mazuri at petco. It is a 1 lb bag for around $7. Not the cheapest price but it lasts me a long time!

Please listen to Toms advice! He has done this more times than you or I can shake a stick at. If you take the time to listen and get this right now you should have a happy, healthy and smooth tortoise.

I know it is difficult and expensive to get the enclosure just right but taking shortcuts now often ends up being more costly in the long run!
 

thegame2388

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Tom said:
What you need to do is listen to the advice you've asked for. Or at least explain why you won't.

You don't need a humidifier. You have a great baby starting enclosure as is, if you would just put it in the house and cover up the holes you are drilling in it. That enclosure will be easy to heat and maintain good baby growing conditions, in any normal temperature controlled home.

If you can't or won't build, or pay someone else to build you a suitable enclosure for the great outdoors, and you can't have it inside then you are not a suitable home for a baby sulcata. What will you do in a few months when it gets bigger and needs a larger house, or when it gets much bigger, and needs to live outside with a heated house? Sulcatas come from a hot climate. In order to maintain them in OUR climate we must provide them with the proper facilities. What you are attempting there is not "proper facilities".

I think you ought to consider one of the Mediterranean species that can survive in your area outdoors without supplemental heat. An Eastern hermanni or a russian would do great with just a small shelter in a safe outdoor enclosure in your area.

Finally, you need to go into your UserCP and enable your incoming PMs if you want people to reply to you.

One concern I have about bringing it inside is...how does it get the sunshine it needs? I have a UVB bulb so that should compensate but I always thought natural light was better for Vitamin D and growth
 

Levi the Leopard

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Easy answer: give it some time outside each day. Build your chamber for indoors, and build a safe tortoise pen for outside.

My babies start with 20min outside each nice weather day. As they grow, so does their time outside. By the time they are a year old they live outside all day and sleep in the chamber indoors at night.
 

Tom

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20-30 minutes of sunshine two or three times a week is enough to prevent MBD where we live. This is why I said you need an indoor enclosure and a safe outdoor enclosure for fair weather. You don't want a baby outside too much in our dry climate anyway, because it will desiccate them. I put hatchlings out for an hour a day and gradually longer as they gain size, until they stay out all day on nice days once they are 5-6" or so, but they still sleep indoors at that size. If you can get your baby outside in a proper safe enclosure, you will not need ANY indoor artificial UV. You can use low wattage, inexpensive regular flood bulbs for basking and a CHE on a thermostat to maintain ambient temps at night or on cold days in your house.

Your baby will not get ANY UV in that enclosure whether its inside or out. The UV that our reptiles need does not penetrate glass or wood, so there is absolutely NO UV benefit to having the enclosure outside.

And... EVERYBODY raises them indoors. I have started 100's of hatchlings indoors and not a single one of them has had any problems associated with lack of UV.

There are links explaining this and much more in my signature.
 

thegame2388

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Tom said:
20-30 minutes of sunshine two or three times a week is enough to prevent MBD where we live. This is why I said you need an indoor enclosure and a safe outdoor enclosure for fair weather. You don't want a baby outside too much in our dry climate anyway, because it will desiccate them. I put hatchlings out for an hour a day and gradually longer as they gain size, until they stay out all day on nice days once they are 5-6" or so, but they still sleep indoors at that size. If you can get your baby outside in a proper safe enclosure, you will not need ANY indoor artificial UV. You can use low wattage, inexpensive regular flood bulbs for basking and a CHE on a thermostat to maintain ambient temps at night or on cold days in your house.

Your baby will not get ANY UV in that enclosure whether its inside or out. The UV that our reptiles need does not penetrate glass or wood, so there is absolutely NO UV benefit to having the enclosure outside.

And... EVERYBODY raises them indoors. I have started 100's of hatchlings indoors and not a single one of them has had any problems associated with lack of UV.

There are links explaining this and much more in my signature.

Thanks. Looks like I'll bring the enclosure indoors then and let it walk around my backyard for 30 minutes a few times a week.
 

Levi the Leopard

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Good plan :)

Just set up a simple border for him in your backyard. You wouldn't believe how many tortoises disappear into thin air when they are small...
 

thegame2388

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Team Gomberg said:
Good plan :)

Just set up a simple border for him in your backyard. You wouldn't believe how many tortoises disappear into thin air when they are small...

More questions:

1. The Zoomed Hygrotherm buttons don't work. I can't cycle between the different display settings (but the programming still works). Does anyone know how I can fix this?

2. How often should I feed my hatchling? I gave him zoomed grassland and romaine but the breeder says they only fed him once a week, which kinda surprised me

3. There is some sort of white residue immediately outside his water bowl. What is this?
 

Tom

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1. I don't know this piece of equipment.

2. You should feed the baby every day. You obviously bought from the wrong breeder. Sorry to hear that. Was your baby started dry on rabbit pellets with no water bowl and soaked once a week? Man I linked everything for you, but it seems like you might not have read it. I hope all turns out ok in the end. Here are those links again:
http://www.tortoiseforum.org/thread-45180.html Look at number one here.

And here is what sometimes happens when you don't heed number one above and buy from one of the dry breeders: http://www.tortoiseforum.org/thread-23493.html

3. We'd need to see a pic. What substrate?
 

thegame2388

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Tom said:
1. I don't know this piece of equipment.

2. You should feed the baby every day. You obviously bought from the wrong breeder. Sorry to hear that. Was your baby started dry on rabbit pellets with no water bowl and soaked once a week? Man I linked everything for you, but it seems like you might not have read it. I hope all turns out ok in the end. Here are those links again:
http://www.tortoiseforum.org/thread-45180.html Look at number one here.

And here is what sometimes happens when you don't heed number one above and buy from one of the dry breeders: http://www.tortoiseforum.org/thread-23493.html

3. We'd need to see a pic. What substrate?

Well yes, they said they didn't keep the humidity high when I asked. The shell looked much healthier than the ones I looked at from LLLReptile.

They soaked him every week, and suggested I do the same.

They were the owners of about 2-3 sulcatas, and few other tortoises so they seemed to know what they were doing. They kept the babies in a tank with rabbit pellets as you mentioned (I didn't know what it was until I just googled it so I can confirm that)

Regardless, he has a water bowl in his enclosure and has "pooped" and done his business enough times.

As for the substrate, it's coco coir.
 

thegame2388

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I'm trying to get my tort to eat his zoomed grassland but he won't...he only eats the greens. I know I'm supposed to lessen the greens and grasses and get him more on the zoomed, but I don't think it's working. Should I just leave it there until all the greens are there and nothing is left but zoomed?

On another note, I'm getting another enclosure VERY similar to these (the doors and overall shape):

23msvh2.png
 

Tom

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The breeder you bought from is doing all the wrong things and now telling you to do all the wrong things. The methods they used to start your baby are still common and the reason that a huge number of them die off every year and the rest grow up highly pyramided. I hope you will be one of the lucky ones.

That enclosure looks good and it will last a little while for you.

Tortoises are very much creatures of habit. It often takes them a long time to want to try a new food. For a baby, I would soak a single ZooMed pellet and mix it in with the greens. Just keep doing this every couple of days for weeks on ends and soon your baby will eat it with the greens. Over time you can begin soaking and mixing in one and a half pellets, then two, etc. Here again, what happens at the breeders place has a large influence on your tortoises behavior and health. Most breeders just throw in a few leafs of romaine to keep baby feeding simple. This is a HORRIBLE start and it sets the new owner up for failure. My babies see a different weed or food item literally every day starting in their brooder boxes right after hatching. By the time they go to their new homes they have seen and eaten dozens of different food items. As a result my babies are never picky and will eat just about anything you put in front of them.

How long your baby spent with the dry routine at the breeders place will to some degree determine how much damage was done. Daily soaks, warm temps and high humidity will help to halt the damage and eventually get your baby past its rough start. Don't be surprised if your baby grows slower than "average". If he survives his rough start, he will eventually catch up and begin to grow at a "normal" pace.

Good luck man.
 

thegame2388

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Tom said:
The breeder you bought from is doing all the wrong things and now telling you to do all the wrong things. The methods they used to start your baby are still common and the reason that a huge number of them die off every year and the rest grow up highly pyramided. I hope you will be one of the lucky ones.

That enclosure looks good and it will last a little while for you.

Tortoises are very much creatures of habit. It often takes them a long time to want to try a new food. For a baby, I would soak a single ZooMed pellet and mix it in with the greens. Just keep doing this every couple of days for weeks on ends and soon your baby will eat it with the greens. Over time you can begin soaking and mixing in one and a half pellets, then two, etc. Here again, what happens at the breeders place has a large influence on your tortoises behavior and health. Most breeders just throw in a few leafs of romaine to keep baby feeding simple. This is a HORRIBLE start and it sets the new owner up for failure. My babies see a different weed or food item literally every day starting in their brooder boxes right after hatching. By the time they go to their new homes they have seen and eaten dozens of different food items. As a result my babies are never picky and will eat just about anything you put in front of them.

How long your baby spent with the dry routine at the breeders place will to some degree determine how much damage was done. Daily soaks, warm temps and high humidity will help to halt the damage and eventually get your baby past its rough start. Don't be surprised if your baby grows slower than "average". If he survives his rough start, he will eventually catch up and begin to grow at a "normal" pace.

Good luck man.

Well mine isn't lethargic at all. He eats his greens and he may have even eaten the zoomed pellets here and there once theyre mushy. I just can't really tell.

I soak him daily, have 80+ ambient temp and 80+ humidity so I really hope he grows nice and healthy.
 

thegame2388

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I have a warm mist humidifier and the ceiling of the enclosure is WAYYYY more humid and moist compared to the ground. I have the humidistat sensor at the ground, but is there a way I can make all that moisture come back down?
 

thegame2388

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Bump

New question: I don't know if I'm blind...but I haven't seen my sulcata poop in over 2 weeks...even during his daily soaks.
 

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