Golden greek tortoises buyers beware!

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james1974

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I purchased three golden Greek Tortoises from reptile pets direct all are infected with herpes virus.with in seven days they are all dieing they refuse to exchange them or refund any money.I paid though PayPal and there is no buyer or seller protection through them at all even though they claim to provide buyer and sellers protection,so beware buying and selling animals through this service or buying any animal from reptile pets direct.:-(
 

Kapidolo Farms

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james1974 said:
I purchased three golden Greek Tortoises from reptile pets direct all are infected with herpes virus.with in seven days they are all dieing they refuse to exchange them or refund any money.I paid though PayPal and there is no buyer or seller protection through them at all even though they claim to provide buyer and sellers protection,so beware buying and selling animals through this service or buying any animal from reptile pets direct.:-(

Vendors who use PayPal as a funds transfer medium cam make whole or partial refunds within the PayPal system. PayPal is not a credit card itself (though they do have cards), you might try regress through the actual credit card company.

Thanks for the heads-up on that vendor.

Will
 

james1974

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Re: RE: Golden greek tortoises buyers beware!

Will said:
james1974 said:
I purchased three golden Greek Tortoises from reptile pets direct all are infected with herpes virus.with in seven days they are all dieing they refuse to exchange them or refund any money.I paid though PayPal and there is no buyer or seller protection through them at all even though they claim to provide buyer and sellers protection,so beware buying and selling animals through this service or buying any animal from reptile pets direct.:-(

Vendors who use PayPal as a funds transfer medium cam make whole or partial refunds within the PayPal system. PayPal is not a credit card itself (though they do have cards), you might try regress through the actual credit card company.

Thanks for the heads-up on that vendor.

Will

I had money on my balance with PayPal from selling other stuff and I have a PayPal smart connect limit of 500 I used to pay for them so there's nothing else I can do but take a loss.a $600.00 loss.
 

Saleama

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Report them to the BBB. Place a claim with PayPal and have a vet certify that the animals were and have been sick and an estimate on how long. You also might try a free consult from a lawyer. They sometimes only chargs a few bucks to draft a letter or make a phone call.
 

parrotlady

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Did you purchase babies or adults?, also the only way you can be sure it is herpes is with a necropsy. I hope they were in isolation. Otherwise your other animals are at risk. I am so sorry for you. Again thanks for the heads up.
 

BeeBee*BeeLeaves

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Herpes virus. Yikes. How is this known for real, for sure?

A lot (all?) of the Greeks coming in are wild caught. My PetSmart ones took forever, like two months forever, to acclimate. They were literally shell shocked. Are you super duper sure it is herpes or perhaps, they are just zoned out like mine were. I thought mine were dying for weeks. I was freaked out but luckily found this forum, raised temps, did baby food and bird vitamin soaks, prayed, gave them space, sun, prayed, more soaks, mixed all kinds of food, soaked some more ... and they finally came around. Prayers finally answered. But I really, really thought any day now, they are dead. Two awful months of worry mind you. My experience to share.
 

james1974

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Re: RE: Golden greek tortoises buyers beware!

BeeBee*BeeLeaves said:
Herpes virus. Yikes. How is this known for real, for sure?

A lot (all?) of the Greeks coming in are wild caught. My PetSmart ones took forever, like two months forever, to acclimate. They were literally shell shocked. Are you super duper sure it is herpes or perhaps, they are just zoned out like mine were. I thought mine were dying for weeks. I was freaked out but luckily found this forum, raised temps, did baby food and bird vitamin soaks, prayed, gave them space, sun, prayed, more soaks, mixed all kinds of food, soaked some more ... and they finally came around. Prayers finally answered. But I really, really thought any day now, they are dead. Two awful months of worry mind you. My experience to share.

Positive test was confirmed yellow growth in the month drooling, respiratory issues it's not good at this point but will see how it turns out.my vet said they could come around but will see.Water soaks,antibiotics to start maybe some force feeding starting tomorrow.What kind of baby food did you use,did you mix them up?How much did you feed each day?
 

BeeBee*BeeLeaves

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I am not a fan of immediate antibiotics because I think sometimes, if the tortoise is already under major stress, the invasiveness of hard core med just adds to the problem. Also, when Bayer Animal Health tells me Baytril is not approved for tortoises and I read that some have very adverse reactions to it, like death, I wig out.

Apparently Greeks are known for the RNS, runny nose syndrome. Any little thing is "stress". Your babies were plucked from their native land, thrown in a truck, driven in the sun for hours, off to a broker, in boxes for days, shipped to the US, processed along the way, into the seller's hands, shipped to you. I would be really sick and tired, also. : (

I found all this out after my impulsive purchase at PetSmart last year. Because of Wabi and Sabi, I found this forum and read-read-read as much as I could. Thankfully, the experts have shared with folks like me, non-experts. I went through hell.

Okay, baby food soaks (which I learned from Maggie and Yvonne) are warm water, like a little spa time, with either carrot or squash baby food thrown in. Any baby food is good, but I did get the organic jars, to be super sure. Let them soak for 20-30 minutes. I did my soaks outside in mid day sun, supervised as I gardened, and so they could get some sunshine at the same time. You can keep them warm under indoor lights or ceramic heat emitter. I did mine twice a day. I found that they would poop and early on they did not eat BUT at least I knew they were getting hydrated, which is vital, and some kind of nutrition with the baby food.

I also did, on alternate days, bird vitamins, 10 drops per tortoise, in their spa time. I bought the Vita-Sol 8 in 1 at PetSmart. For the same reason as above, nutrients via warm water.

I boosted up the temps to 90 degrees. So they were warm and cozy. And yet, they would not eat. I just kept on keeping on. I did give them a crazy mix of things, including mazuri soaked in - are you ready? - a tablespoon of distilled water with a few drops of raw, organic apple cider vinegar (Bragg's brand, I like). ACV is antibacterial, antifungal, antiviral. I hoped I was not nuts doing this, but know it helps my other pets and me, too. I fed twice a day hoping something would get eaten. At first, all of this went in to either my chickens, or to the compost pile at the end of the day. It did not seem like they were biting. Nerves frazzled. They have to eat right?

I also rubbed raw, organic, extra virgin coconut oil on their necks, under the beak, a little on the top back of the head. It too is anti everything like the ACV, antibacterial, antiviral, antifungal. I also did a little on the shell, but not often. Maybe once a week.

Hydrated, warm, natural support therapies, time, patience.

One day, I bought a bag of shredded carrots for me, for my daily salad. I shared. It was that day (!) that they both picked out the carrots from everything else and I actually saw them eat. Success! Finally. I was so happy, you have no idea.

Here is a link of the blog I want to share, so you can see why they might be shell shocked. Oh what a strange trip it has been for our little tortoises. And while I am grateful for them being in my care, I hope it helps you understand what we are up against when we finally get them in our care. I was in your shoes, but admittedly, I did not seek the vet. I would have if they seemed much worse at some point but I felt that I would give it a go with these remedies first. I am very suspect of doctors and vets because so much, in my humble opinion, is money driven medicine. Again, my personal opinion. I hope your little trio acclimates and gets well. : )

http://princessaliafoundation.blogspot.com/2012/05/each-and-every-one-counts.html
 

skottip

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If I remember correctly, there are numerous stories regarding that vendor on Fauna Classifieds.
None good.
 

reptilepetsdirect

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Hello,

This is Craig with Reptile Pets Direct. I appreciate you taking to time to read my response to this post. I have been in the Reptile Industry for over a decade now. I own a distributorship, GE Reptiles, which for the last 10 years has sold over a million live animals to Zoos, Private Collectors, and Pet Stores the world over. We import reptiles from more than 20 countries, buy from countless private breeders and breed many animals ourselves.

About a year ago I opened Reptile Pets Direct as a retail outlet for some of our more unique and rarer Reptiles that we get in. Mostly, this was a decision made to ensure certain rare animals made it into the hands of private collectors who would give them the proper care they deserve.

Since we opened we have shipped over 700 live animal order as Reptile Pets Direct. Out of those 700 orders we have had 3 customers bring complaints to our attention.

The first was a lizard that we shipped and arrived DOA, we refunded the customers money.

The 2nd was a baby spider that was shipped recently. It arrived dead and we sent the customer a replacement (for free) and the customer was very satisfied.

The third issue a customer has had is presented here in the above posts.

A few things I would like to point out about this sale.

1. Several weeks ago we were contacted by James stating that he wanted to purchase a pair of greek tortoises off our website. We negotiated a price for him (much lower than our asking price) and shipped him the pair of tortoises. Upon receiving the tortoises he brought to our attention that we had sent the incorrect female. (The tortoises available were identified with individual numbers). We apologized multiple times for the mistake we had made. We then covered the shipping cost for James to Return the incorrect female and we then shipped him the correct one for free. Rightfully we should as this was a mistake on our part.

2. Over a week went by and James contacted us to Purchase an ADDITIONAL female Greek Tortoise. At the time of course making no mention of any health concerns. We negotiated a price for that female and shipped it to him.

3. It was not until several days after receipt of the 3rd tortoise that we were told of his concerns with their health. At which point he sent an email to us and filed a complaint with pay pal simultaneously giving us no time or option to work out an amicable solution.

Now, it is very very important to note that we offer no guarantees for the long term health of animals. We simply cannot as it is out of our control how animals are cared for. Our complete terms of service can be read here: http://www.reptilepetsdirect.com/termsandconditions.php

Yes, our TOS is strict, and that is to protect our company. Now, generally speaking if someone has a concern we will do whatever we can to reach a solution that makes our customer happy. Second to the care and health of animals our customer's happiness is our most important goal for us. However, we also have to look at things from a business prospective or we would simply not be in business for very long. As a result we make NO GUARANTEES on animals past their healthy delivery. This especially applies to imported animals.

Now, on our site we do offer Captive Born and Bred Tortoises, these are kept in a completely different facility from our imported animals. James was made very aware that these animals were Wild Collected. He asked the country of origin and we told him Jordan.

Greek Tortoises are EXTREMELY prone to health issues, everyone on this forum is aware of that. When these animals come in from Northern Jordan they have to be kept EXTREMELY hot or health issues will become apparent almost immediately. We offer these animals to breeders under the assumption they know how to care for them and assume the risks of buying an imported animal. That is part of this business. For obvious financial reasons a $175.00 Greek tortoise does not go through a battery of Veterinary tests before being sold for that amount. That is the responsibility of the end buyer.

If a customer comes into our store or contacts us via email looking for a pet tortoise, or they are new to the hobby we would explain that an adult wild collected Greek Tortoise IS NOT the best option. We would then explain to them about CB baby Russian Tortoises, Baby Red Foot Tortoises etc and the care requirements that these animals have.

We try in every way possible to be a responsible company and value all of our customers. I truly do hold the belief that Animal Imports are 100% necessary for the continued success of our hobby but also think it is the responsibility of the sellers to explain the risks of purchasing these animals. We make every attempt to do this.

For James we were:
-Very open about the Origin of the Animal
-We helped him on the price by dropping it a bit.
-When we made a mistake and sent the wrong animal we immediately paid to correct our mistake
-James even had my personal cell phone to communicate issues.

However, we were never even given a chance to work out a solution. An even if we had been this is a circumstance that really does fall out of the realm of ability to do very much. Too much time had passed for us to guarantee an animal that was WC.

If any potential customer has any questions at all about the way we conduct business please email us. We will be happy to explain in further detail and provide countless references.

Thanks for reading!
Craig
Reptile Pets Direct
 

Jacqui

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Craig, I thank you for taking the time to come in here and tell us your side of this issue.
 

BeeBee*BeeLeaves

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Thanks Craig. The explains what I went through with acclimating my two little Greeks last year. Thank you TFO for providing the information that allowed me to do that. They were exactly as Craig just said, needing that much more attention. I was not an experienced keeper and I did get in over my head. But Wabi and Sabi pulled through. James, I really hope that yours do also. Keep them at 90, lots of warm and cozy soaks with bird vitamins and alternate days, baby food, carrot or squash. Imported in, as the seller said above, from Jordan, like that link I sent you, explains just how stressed/freaked out these little ones are. Support. Dedicated support to get them up and running. My two are doing great, but like I said it was close to two months of my thinking I was a tortoise buying killer. I thought I would lose them, every day. Extra care, they demand extra care when brought in from their native homes. One of mine even walks over when it see me. I am the food and goody goddess! : )
 

james1974

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Re: RE: Golden greek tortoises buyers beware!

What's funny about this is the first two were fine but you sent the wrong one ok then you send me the right one which turned out to be the infected one with herpes virus which brings me to believe you new that animal was sick so you tried to sell me something I didn't want so you said fine and sent the animal I paid for instead of being honest with me and telling me there may or may not have some health issues.I had her a few days then order another at that point there the stress factor I let any wild caught animals settle in before I give a full examination when I examined the inside of her mouth yellow growth everywhere something you could have done before selling.All these animals have it and are declining fast thanks for nothing friend!

Oh and don't say I didn't contact you either because I sent you a email about this and there was no reply from you.
 

Yvonne G

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Hi James:

I'm wondering if you had the tortoises tested and are sure that this is what was wrong with them. The mouth problem could just as easily be stomatitis (mouth rot) rather than herpes.

Here's a nice article written by the Tortoise Trust about the Herpes virus in tortoises, in case anyone is wondering:

http://www.tortoisetrust.org/articles/herpeswarning.htm
 

kbaker

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James-
Time to chill.

I went through what you did with two dozen Greeks this year. I spent a lot of time and money and I am down to 5 Greeks. Everything reptiles direct said was spot on. I even hand picked some of them myself. They just don't do well right off the bat and take a long time to become "regular" in all their habits.

I suggest either learn from this or stay away from Greeks.
 

james1974

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Re: RE: Golden greek tortoises buyers beware!

kbaker said:
James-
Time to chill.

I went through what you did with two dozen Greeks this year. I spent a lot of time and money and I am down to 5 Greeks. Everything reptiles direct said was spot on. I even hand picked some of them myself. They just don't do well right off the bat and take a long time to become "regular" in all their habits.

I suggest either learn from this or stay away from Greeks.

All im saying they were not examined correctly if they were they would not have be sold.I Raise captive breed and wild caught animals for well over fifteen years I know what to expect from them this was the first greeks I ever received with this issue,respiratory parasites are all most guaranteed but this is something you don't expect,all that needed to be done was a simple look inside the month,anyone who's ever worked at a zoo should be able to do,I can do it most tortoises keepers should know how and if you don't have your vet teach you.
 

kbaker

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Sorry, but I don't know anyone who checks every animal 100% every time. I spent time with my Greeks giving oral medication and the yellow cheese can develop quickly.

Even after 15 years, you can always learn something new.

Good luck.
 

ShellyTurtlesCats

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I didn't read all of this but I know Paypal.

Did you file a claim? If not, skip calling and file. Your items are not as purchased and you are well within your rights to fight this as a claim. I believe they give you 30 days to do so.

I don't know either person. I think I'd do a vet check prior to filing the claim.

_________
~ Shelly ~
 

james1974

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Re: RE: Golden greek tortoises buyers beware!

kbaker said:
Sorry, but I don't know anyone who checks every animal 100% every time. I spent time with my Greeks giving oral medication and the yellow cheese can develop quickly.

Even after 15 years, you can always learn something new.

Good luck.

Thanks but im going to need a lot of good luck for this issue.:-(
 

james1974

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Re: RE: Golden greek tortoises buyers beware!

Jacqui said:
Craig, I thank you for taking the time to come in here and tell us your side of this issue.

Craig didn't tell you is all the others they had for sale were removed there not showing any adult golden Greeks for sale now since I brought this to there attention humm that should just tell you something about the health of there golden Greeks and how they treat there customers.
 
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