So, is pyramiding really bad?

I dunno.

When I first got my leo, I assumed they were supposed to be pyramided since the only ones I've seen in pet shops have been. I came here right before it arrived, and then learned that pyramiding is bad. Or at least universally perceived as bad.

So, is it bad just because it doesn't look nice to some people, or are there any health risks?

I'm currently trying to raise mine to be smooth since I hear that's how they are in the wild. But if it does come out a little pyramided I won't mind since I expected it from the get go.

Pyramiding isn't bad, if they weren't raised in a bad way to get pyramiding, along with MBD. It's more cosmetic, except that is not the way they are suppose to be. It's human error or stupidity that they are pyramided. Now that we know better, better should,be done for them.

A few species naturally experience mild pyramiding in nature. But the kinds of extreme pyramiding many tortoises exhibit in captivity is not healthy.

What's MBD exactly? I don't want to sound dumb but I hear a lot about it but don't actually know what it is

GeoTerraTestudo said:

A few species naturally experience mild pyramiding in nature. But the kinds of extreme pyramiding many tortoises exhibit in captivity is not healthy.

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I agree with this. As it relates to leopard tortoises, it seems as though certain localities are more prone to pyramiding than others. In Ed Pirogs leopard tortoise book, it states that approximately 20% of leopards in the wild are assumed to have some amount of pyramiding. I hope I am remembering that right, and I'm not sure how that number came to be. As GeoTerra said, the extreme pyramiding we see in captivity is really not observed in the wild.

joseppa96 said:

What's MBD exactly? I don't want to sound dumb but I hear a lot about it but don't actually know what it is

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MBD stands for "metabolic bone disease." It's basically the reptilian version of the rickets that mammals can get, i.e. inadequate levels of vitamin D3 and/or calcium leading to weak, deformed bones. This includes the bones of the shell, which is really just a modified rib cage.

Shell deformities in all turtles, including tortoises, can be due to MBD. Tortoises in particular, though, can also be vulnerable to pyramiding, even when their skeleton is otherwise healthy. This appears to be due to inadequate environmental moisture and/or internal hydration, which can make the keratin of the carapace warp, deforming the bone underneath.

Metabolic Bone Disease which is a abnormal growth of the bones due to malnourishment. It can actually shorten the life a tort.

joseppa96 said:

What's MBD exactly? I don't want to sound dumb but I hear a lot about it but don't actually know what it is

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http://stock-clip.com/video/2478086...-dirt-after-having-emerged-from-their-burrows

Interesting about the burrows and the degree of pyramiding in these two. I have never seen any of my leopards dig burrows and my current animals are too small to be allowed to safely explore the communal burrow my sulcata females excavated (which my Manouria, big yellow foot tortoises, and my Leopcata/hybrid habitually use). I am curious to see if they choose to use the communal burrow when they grow to a larger size.

The animals in the clip do look wild despite the significant pyramiding.

My Kenyan colleague does not know anybody there who keeps these as pets, but that does not mean no one does. I will see if he has additional information.

Baoh said:

http://stock-clip.com/video/2478086...-dirt-after-having-emerged-from-their-burrows

Interesting about the burrows and the degree of pyramiding in these two. I have never seen any of my leopards dig burrows and my current animals are too small to be allowed to safely explore the communal burrow my sulcata females excavated (which my Manouria, big yellow foot tortoises, and my Leopcata/hybrid habitually use). I am curious to see if they choose to use the communal burrow when they grow to a larger size.

The animals in the clip do look wild despite the significant pyramiding.

My Kenyan colleague does not know anybody there who keeps these as pets, but that does not mean no one does. I will see if he has additional information.

Click to expand...

That is interesting.

I have to believe that a degree of pyramiding is natural in leopards. Possibly it depends on the genetics and the conditions. I think many on this forum are actually "forcing" their leopards to be smooth by keeping them in unnaturally super-humid environments.

I keep mine between 60 and 80% which is probably unnaturally high. But keeping them in 90%+ jungle humidity just to try and avoid pyramiding doesn't seem right to me.

I mean, will you love your tortoise less if it has pyramids? I equate this to my dog that has horrible allergies. He sometimes eats his fur off during summer months and looks like crap, but I don't love him any less. Even though my tort isn't pyramiding, I find all this anti-pyramiding talk kind of depressing. Like they're less of an animal if it happens.

It's just cosmetic.

I prefer the reduction of what I deem to be cosmetic flaws because some of my animals have a role as aesthetic examples of their species as much as they may also be breeders, but I have no concerns as it relates to health for mild to moderate pyramiding. It depends on the situation. What I am willing to pay is directly related to this and other factors.

Pyramiding might and might not shorten the life of your tortoise. If there are health concerns pyramiding might be a sign of a larger problem. There are many healthy pyramided tortoises out there. Out of curiosity, if your dog were able to stop eating its fur off of its body because there was something you could naturally do to prevent it, would you? I know you love your dog anyways, regardless of what it looks like, but would you stop it, if you could? I don't think I would love my tortoises any less with pyramiding but if there is something I can do that will not hurt it and is natural, to prevent pyramiding, I feel like that is what I should do. It is not really cosmetic to me but more that in the wild it would not be pyramided and since I can't return it to its natural, wild state, I will do for it what I can to help it. Also, pyramiding can also make it hard for the tortoise to do certain things depending on how bad the pyramiding is. You need to be comfortable with your choice so the more you know the better you are able to make a decision you are comfortable with. Good luck with your tortoise and post lots of pictures.

A few species do have natural pyramiding but I dont think the leopard is one of them. They may be more prone to pyramiding but that doesnt make it "natural" in my opinion. Just because they're all in their home range doesnt mean they all have the same exact conditions with the same amount of humidity and water available.

The wild tortoises that do get pyramided are most often the ones that live near human settlements and eat refuse and food waste. It is not due to their natural diet.

There is a handful of tortoise species that get mild, I repeat, mild pyramiding in nature. Here they are in the wild:

Leopard tortoise


Radiated tortoise


Star tortoise


Geometric tortoise


Tent tortoise


Galapagos tortoise


Redfoot tortoise


What do all these species have in common? They're all savanna tortoises. In other words, they all live in the ecotonal transition zone between forests and grasslands. My guess is that they all originated from the humid forest, but are expanding their ranges into the more arid grasslands. So, they may not be as well-adapted to the lower levels of humidity out there, which might lead to some minor pyramiding. Just a thought.