Need help with baby sulcata please, im so stressed

Tom

The Dog Trainer
10 Year Member!
Platinum Tortoise Club
Joined
Jan 9, 2010
Messages
63,264
Location (City and/or State)
Southern California
Perfect many thanks, any recomendations for a good light?
Read and follow the care advice given on this sheet and things should turn around:

Here are some immediate problems I see:
1. The cfl bulb is an ineffective UV source and possibly damaging too. The tortoise may have a D3 deficiency if you have not been taking it outside for sunshine. This could lead to metabolic bone disease which could explain the jaw problem.
2. The enclosure is much too small. You need at least 122cm x 61cm for a little baby.
3. This species needs daily swarm soaks for 30-40 minutes, and a high humidity environment.
4. You need four different elements for heating and lighting: 1. Basking bulb, 2. UV tube, 3. LEDs for ambient lighting, and 4. A CHE or RHP controlled by a thermostat to maintain ambient temp above 27C day and night.
5. The basking area directly under the basking bulb needs to be around 36-37C.
6. Open topped enclosures cannot hold in the heat and humidity. You need a closed chamber.

Questions are welcome.
 

Lyn W

Well-Known Member
5 Year Member
Joined
Jul 22, 2014
Messages
23,497
Location (City and/or State)
UK
Hi and welcome,
Does he feed himself? If he is eating well and can feed himself, I don't think his jaw could be causing him too many problems. Does he have food available all day for grazing?
I think he may need a larger enclosure so that he has room to roam which will help him digest food and is good for bone health it will also give him a range of temps with a cool end as well as a warm end.
The coiled bulbs can burn tort eyes so many of us use T5 HO tubes for uvb - when it is warm enough for him to have outdoor time he will get uvb from the sun so you won't need to use it then but over winter he will probably need it. With that we use a flood basking bulb (spots are too intense) and a che run through a thermostat for night heat. They are all available online. I use Arcadia but there are other brands.
Check the caresheet to see if there are other things you need to change.
 

ILDECOLT

New Member
Joined
Nov 26, 2021
Messages
16
Location (City and/or State)
San Fernando
Lea y siga los consejos de cuidado que se dan en esta hoja y las cosas deberían cambiar:
[URL unfurl = "true"] https://tortoiseforum.org/threads/the-best-way-to-raise-a-sulcata-leopard-or-star-tortoise.181497/ [/ URL]

Aquí hay algunos problemas inmediatos que veo:
1. La bombilla cfl es una fuente de rayos ultravioleta ineficaz y posiblemente dañina también. La tortuga puede tener una deficiencia de D3 si no la ha estado sacando al sol. Esto podría conducir a una enfermedad ósea metabólica que podría explicar el problema de la mandíbula.
2. El recinto es demasiado pequeño. Necesita al menos 122 cm x 61 cm para un bebé pequeño.
3. Esta especie necesita baños diarios de enjambres durante 30-40 minutos y un ambiente de alta humedad.
4. Necesita cuatro elementos diferentes para la calefacción y la iluminación: 1. Bombilla para tomar el sol, 2. Tubo UV, 3. LED para iluminación ambiental y 4. Un CHE o RHP controlado por un termostato para mantener la temperatura ambiente por encima de 27 ° C día y noche.
5. El área para tomar el sol directamente debajo de la bombilla para tomar el sol debe estar alrededor de 36-37C.
6. Los recintos abiertos con la parte superior no pueden contener el calor y la humedad. Necesitas una cámara cerrada.

Las preguntas son bienvenidas.
Hello, many thanks for all your help, i buy the tortoise with the jaw problem, the seller send me this tortoise in this status... Im deleting the bulb, u can tell me a good light UVB for the sulcata ? And 2 years of errors on light.. no hope to this tortoise i think? If she dont grow now sure is dead?
 

Lyn W

Well-Known Member
5 Year Member
Joined
Jul 22, 2014
Messages
23,497
Location (City and/or State)
UK
Hello, many thanks for all your help, i buy the tortoise with the jaw problem, the seller send me this tortoise in this status... Im deleting the bulb, u can tell me a good light UVB for the sulcata ? And 2 years of errors on light.. no hope to this tortoise i think? If she dont grow now sure is dead?
If she is active and eating like a healthy tortoise, I see no reason why she would die.
Just read the caresheet and make any changes as suggested in it, but please ask if you need anything explained.
The light needs to be changed, but if she hasn't had any eye problems so far that is good - but better to get a safe bulb. What are you using for heat?
 

Tom

The Dog Trainer
10 Year Member!
Platinum Tortoise Club
Joined
Jan 9, 2010
Messages
63,264
Location (City and/or State)
Southern California
Hello, many thanks for all your help, i buy the tortoise with the jaw problem, the seller send me this tortoise in this status... Im deleting the bulb, u can tell me a good light UVB for the sulcata ? And 2 years of errors on light.. no hope to this tortoise i think? If she dont grow now sure is dead?
Death is unlikely at this point. With the right enclosure, temperatures, soaking and care routine, growth should pick up.

Arcadia makes good UV bulbs and they are based in Europe, so you can probably find or order their products in Spain. I like the 12% HO tubes. You can use the shorter 22 inch length ones. It doesn't need to cover the entire top of the enclosure. The UV tube only needs to be on 2-3 hours mid day, and that is why you need the LED ambient lighting to be on for the rest of the day.

Here is more help with lighting and heating:
There are four elements to heating and lighting:
  1. Basking bulb. I use 65 watt incandescent floods from the hardware store. Some people will need bigger, or smaller wattage bulbs. Let your thermometer be your guide. I run them on a timer for about 12 hours and adjust the height to get the correct basking temp under them. I also like to use a flat rock of some sort directly under the bulb. You need to check the temp with a thermometer directly under the bulb and get it to around 95-100F (36-37C).
  2. Ambient heat maintenance. I use ceramic heating elements or radiant heat panels set on thermostats to maintain ambient above 80 degrees day and night for tropical species. You'd only need day heat for a temperate species like Testudo or DT, as long as your house stays above 60F (15-16C) at night.
  3. Light. I use LEDs for this purpose. Something in the 5000-6500K color range will look the best. Most bulbs at the store are in the 2500K range and they look yellowish. Strip or screw-in LED bulb types are both fine.
  4. UV. If you can get your tortoise outside for an hour 2 or 3 times a week, you won't need indoor UV. In colder climates, get one of the newer HO type fluorescent tubes. Which type will depend on mounting height. 5.0 bulbs make almost no UV. I like the 12% HO bulbs from Arcadia. You need a meter to check this: https://www.solarmeter.com/model65.html
 

ILDECOLT

New Member
Joined
Nov 26, 2021
Messages
16
Location (City and/or State)
San Fernando
Si es activa y come como una tortuga sana, no veo ninguna razón por la que moriría.
Simplemente lea la hoja de cuidados y realice los cambios sugeridos en ella, pero pregunte si necesita que le expliquen algo.
Es necesario cambiar la luz, pero si no ha tenido ningún problema en los ojos hasta ahora, está bien, pero es mejor conseguir una bombilla segura. ¿Qué estás usando para calentar?
Heat with ceramic emiter my friend, im buying today a 200 litters terrarium in two hour i send photo here, she is very very active really, i play with she and she run to my hand to bite me so agressive hahahaha but is small 69g os ridiculous to a 2 years tortoise, the plastron its more strong for sure, she defecated calcium one time (urates) she eat calcium dust in mulberry leafs, is she life and grow i think i grow too.
 

ILDECOLT

New Member
Joined
Nov 26, 2021
Messages
16
Location (City and/or State)
San Fernando
La muerte es poco probable en este momento. Con el recinto, las temperaturas, el remojo y la rutina de cuidado adecuados, el crecimiento debería recuperarse.

Arcadia fabrica buenas bombillas UV y tienen su sede en Europa, por lo que probablemente pueda encontrar o pedir sus productos en España. Me gustan los tubos de 12% HO. Puede usar los más cortos de 22 pulgadas de largo. No es necesario que cubra toda la parte superior del gabinete. El tubo UV solo necesita estar encendido 2-3 horas al mediodía, y es por eso que necesita que la iluminación ambiental LED esté encendida durante el resto del día.

Aquí hay más ayuda con la iluminación y la calefacción:
Hay cuatro elementos para la calefacción y la iluminación:
  1. Bombilla para tomar el sol. Utilizo inundaciones incandescentes de 65 vatios de la ferretería. Algunas personas necesitarán bombillas de vataje más grandes o más pequeñas. Deje que su termómetro sea su guía. Los ejecuto con un temporizador durante aproximadamente 12 horas y ajusto la altura para obtener la temperatura de calentamiento correcta debajo de ellos. También me gusta usar una piedra plana de algún tipo directamente debajo de la bombilla. Debe verificar la temperatura con un termómetro directamente debajo de la bombilla y llevarla a alrededor de 95-100F (36-37C).
  2. Mantenimiento del calor ambiental. Utilizo elementos calefactores de cerámica o paneles de calor radiante colocados en termostatos para mantener el ambiente por encima de los 80 grados durante el día y la noche para las especies tropicales. Solo necesitaría calor diurno para una especie templada como Testudo o DT, siempre que su casa se mantenga por encima de 60F (15-16C) por la noche.
  3. Luz. Utilizo LED para este propósito. Algo en la gama de colores 5000-6500K se verá mejor. La mayoría de las bombillas en la tienda están en el rango de 2500K y se ven amarillentas. Los tipos de bombilla LED de tira o atornillados están bien.
  4. UV. Si puede sacar a su tortuga al aire libre durante una hora 2 o 3 veces por semana, no necesitará rayos ultravioleta en interiores. En climas más fríos, obtenga uno de los tubos fluorescentes tipo HO más nuevos. Qué tipo dependerá de la altura de montaje. Las bombillas 5.0 casi no producen rayos UV. Me gustan las bombillas de 12% HO de Arcadia. Necesita un medidor para verificar esto: https://www.solarmeter.com/model65.html
This is perfect im buying now a 200 l terrarium and now i go to check the 2 lights i need, the leds i can make it this weekend, and my final question is: i destroy the life of this animal or is a genetical problem ? She dont grow a lot in two years.. but very very very active she play bite me a lot.. she can grow or she is in this weight forever? She can live or is a suffering for she?
 

ILDECOLT

New Member
Joined
Nov 26, 2021
Messages
16
Location (City and/or State)
San Fernando
Esto es perfecto estoy comprando ahora un terrario de 200 l y ahora voy a revisar las 2 luces que necesito, los leds que puedo hacer este fin de semana, y mi última pregunta es: ¿destruyo la vida de este animal o es un problema genético? Ella no crece mucho en dos años ... pero muy, muy muy activa, juega mucho, muerdeme mucho ... ¿puede crecer o tiene este peso para siempre? ¿Puede vivir o es un sufrimiento para ella?
I send photos of all the changes i promise, i love all the animals
 

Lyn W

Well-Known Member
5 Year Member
Joined
Jul 22, 2014
Messages
23,497
Location (City and/or State)
UK
This is perfect im buying now a 200 l terrarium and now i go to check the 2 lights i need, the leds i can make it this weekend, and my final question is: i destroy the life of this animal or is a genetical problem ? She dont grow a lot in two years.. but very very very active she play bite me a lot.. she can grow or she is in this weight forever? She can live or is a suffering for she?
Get as big a vivarium as possible the more floor space they have to move about the better.
As Tom says - with the correct conditions and a good diet she could thrive. I don't think she is suffering if she is eating and active.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Ink

TaylorTortoise

Well-Known Member
Joined
Mar 24, 2020
Messages
1,461
Location (City and/or State)
Abington
This is the new home wait for the light !!
This is a good start, you’re going to have to go bigger with this type of species though. It can seem overwhelming but it will get better as you see them thrive/grow. First make the corrections in order to see growth.

you need to get a thermostat to check temps humidity levels you can use spray bottles rocks, coco coir, orchard bark substrates that help with humidity, plexi glass on top of screen will help hold in humidity closing the top… constantly giving the tortoise soaks for 10-15-20 mins every few days.

make these corrections and leave the tortoise alone to adjust to the new environment. Provide plenty of hides fake plants.
 

TaylorTortoise

Well-Known Member
Joined
Mar 24, 2020
Messages
1,461
Location (City and/or State)
Abington
This is what I have my hatchling in with plexi glass on top. I lined inside the enclosure with cabinet liner.
 

Attachments

  • 0FCF7689-1D07-481F-9B70-778C9E6612D9.png
    0FCF7689-1D07-481F-9B70-778C9E6612D9.png
    194.5 KB · Views: 9

TaylorTortoise

Well-Known Member
Joined
Mar 24, 2020
Messages
1,461
Location (City and/or State)
Abington
You need this to constantly check the temps and humdity.
 

Attachments

  • 6F45A092-A79B-4F7B-8219-8D3E92EC6F67.png
    6F45A092-A79B-4F7B-8219-8D3E92EC6F67.png
    113.7 KB · Views: 5

MenagerieGrl

Well-Known Member
Tortoise Club
Platinum Tortoise Club
Joined
Nov 11, 2020
Messages
1,163
Location (City and/or State)
El Sobrante, CA.
Hello, @ILDECOLT
Be calm, YOU and your baby? have come to the right place.
We are all here to help. I know you have been given a LOT of very good information from some very wise folks. If your baby is eating & pooping well, that a big part of it's life, and you can be happy with that. Just read over all the info, Advice & suggestion's that have put out there, and your lil tort's life will be so much better and fulfilling.
Please don't stress over what HAS, been, focus on the future. Additionally, don't worry over the weight, our lil Tort's are all individuals, some grow faster than others.
Just give him/her time.
I hope these are words of encouragement.
I feel fortunate to have found this place at a difficult time in my life, and it HAS helped.
Wishing you and your lil Tort ? the best....
 

Toombsk16

New Member
Joined
Nov 12, 2021
Messages
23
Location (City and/or State)
Brooklyn, CT
Hello,
We are new owners to a baby Sulcata and tried to research as much as possible before we got ours recently. Clearly the UVB is one of the most important things for long term health of your Sully. We have been really happy with the “Zilla Slimline Desert 50 UVB T8 Fluorescent Fixture”. It is mounted on the top of his wooden enclosure. I think the 10 UVB rating on yours may be a bit low for Sulcata’s s we went with the 50 that’s rated for desert. Humidity has been a challenge to keep over 50%, so we spray things down regularly and give him his bath everyday. We are ordering a small humidifying unit to assist the 40g enclosure.

We certainly don’t claim to be experts and I refer to to forum regularly for tips & advice.

Ill be following this post to watch for the recommendations from those who are much more experienced.

we have learned so much already. The anatomy of reptiles not being able to produce their own heat to warm their bodies is such an opposite, but super important requirement to get accustomed to compared t warm blooded Mamals.

it is a fun experience in eying to setup the best habitat possible our Obi’

it sounds Ike you are doing a great job of being proactive in getting the right combination for yours. ?
 

Attachments

  • 018170FA-31A2-4E3E-A4D3-63EE944487E2.jpeg
    018170FA-31A2-4E3E-A4D3-63EE944487E2.jpeg
    1.1 MB · Views: 11
  • A79EA1B0-2AFF-4734-BA7B-71AB9C59B2DB.jpeg
    A79EA1B0-2AFF-4734-BA7B-71AB9C59B2DB.jpeg
    303.1 KB · Views: 11

Toombsk16

New Member
Joined
Nov 12, 2021
Messages
23
Location (City and/or State)
Brooklyn, CT
We also bought a weather station and have a remote sensor in the cool portion of his enclosure that constantly keeps us updated to the temperature and humidity levels. This has been a big help. We got an extra sensor, so we know our house, outside and his enclosure information showing 24/7 for us to monitor. It wasn’t expensive, but gives us a huge piece of mind. It even has an alarm if the temp goes over or below set levels. ???
 

zolasmum

Well-Known Member
5 Year Member
Joined
May 19, 2015
Messages
2,001
This is perfect im buying now a 200 l terrarium and now i go to check the 2 lights i need, the leds i can make it this weekend, and my final question is: i destroy the life of this animal or is a genetical problem ? She dont grow a lot in two years.. but very very very active she play bite me a lot.. she can grow or she is in this weight forever? She can live or is a suffering for she?
Hello from theUK. Your little tortoise looks very sweet, and she is not suffering - please don't think that. She wouldn't be so active and playful if she was in pain. And if you do the things the experts here tell you, she will start growing more, and you will soon be able to stop worrying about her so much. And there will always be people here who can help you in future.
I do know how you feel - when you are caring for something so small, it is a great worry - but she will grow bigger and stronger all the time. What is her name?
I hope you will tell us about her progress as time goes on.
Best wishes from Angie
 

Tom

The Dog Trainer
10 Year Member!
Platinum Tortoise Club
Joined
Jan 9, 2010
Messages
63,264
Location (City and/or State)
Southern California
Hello,
We are new owners to a baby Sulcata and tried to research as much as possible before we got ours recently. Clearly the UVB is one of the most important things for long term health of your Sully. We have been really happy with the “Zilla Slimline Desert 50 UVB T8 Fluorescent Fixture”. It is mounted on the top of his wooden enclosure. I think the 10 UVB rating on yours may be a bit low for Sulcata’s s we went with the 50 that’s rated for desert. Humidity has been a challenge to keep over 50%, so we spray things down regularly and give him his bath everyday. We are ordering a small humidifying unit to assist the 40g enclosure.

We certainly don’t claim to be experts and I refer to to forum regularly for tips & advice.

Ill be following this post to watch for the recommendations from those who are much more experienced.

we have learned so much already. The anatomy of reptiles not being able to produce their own heat to warm their bodies is such an opposite, but super important requirement to get accustomed to compared t warm blooded Mamals.

it is a fun experience in eying to setup the best habitat possible our Obi’

it sounds Ike you are doing a great job of being proactive in getting the right combination for yours. ?
T8 tubes don't make much UV. HO T5 tubes are the way to go for indoor UV, and just recently LED UV lights have hit the market.

You will never be able to maintain the correct temps and humidity in an open topped enclosure. That is like trying to heat your home with no roof on it. It won't work. You need a large closed chamber. Your baby is already showing the signs of pyramiding. Every day that passes in that dry enclosure does irreversible damage. Read this for the correct care info:
 

Toombsk16

New Member
Joined
Nov 12, 2021
Messages
23
Location (City and/or State)
Brooklyn, CT
T8 tubes don't make much UV. HO T5 tubes are the way to go for indoor UV, and just recently LED UV lights have hit the market.

You will never be able to maintain the correct temps and humidity in an open topped enclosure. That is like trying to heat your home with no roof on it. It won't work. You need a large closed chamber. Your baby is already showing the signs of pyramiding. Every day that passes in that dry enclosure does irreversible damage. Read this for the correct care info:
Tom,

Thank you for your 8nput on the T5 vs. T8. I went with the T8 because it was 18” and the longest T5 I could find was only 12. I’ll look at getting the T5 ballast. Do you think the desert 50 is appropriate for a Sulcata or is the 10 more sufficient?

we do have a fully enclosed top it’s about 2/3 wood and 1/3 wood frame with plexiglass.

I bought 1 heat lamp and got a 75W black bulb, but am going to replace it tomorrow. It seems a bit warm directly below it. 110-115’ on the slate, yet on the cool area 76-78.

i got 2 50W Ceramic Bulbs and am going to put 1 in the middle, the other to the left 1/2 of the way to the side and leave the other side without so he has a cooler area to retreat to when he needs.

he loves his greens, but doesn’t care for the straw/hay dry mixture we purchased. (I don’t blame him, the greens are fresh, moist and seem more appetizing to me (and I don’t even like vegetables ? ?)

Thanks again,
Ken
 

Attachments

  • 859F4FCE-D70A-4F9A-8039-D09C9DB6982F.jpeg
    859F4FCE-D70A-4F9A-8039-D09C9DB6982F.jpeg
    1.3 MB · Views: 6

Tom

The Dog Trainer
10 Year Member!
Platinum Tortoise Club
Joined
Jan 9, 2010
Messages
63,264
Location (City and/or State)
Southern California
Tom,

Thank you for your 8nput on the T5 vs. T8. I went with the T8 because it was 18” and the longest T5 I could find was only 12. I’ll look at getting the T5 ballast. Do you think the desert 50 is appropriate for a Sulcata or is the 10 more sufficient?

we do have a fully enclosed top it’s about 2/3 wood and 1/3 wood frame with plexiglass.

I bought 1 heat lamp and got a 75W black bulb, but am going to replace it tomorrow. It seems a bit warm directly below it. 110-115’ on the slate, yet on the cool area 76-78.

i got 2 50W Ceramic Bulbs and am going to put 1 in the middle, the other to the left 1/2 of the way to the side and leave the other side without so he has a cooler area to retreat to when he needs.

he loves his greens, but doesn’t care for the straw/hay dry mixture we purchased. (I don’t blame him, the greens are fresh, moist and seem more appetizing to me (and I don’t even like vegetables ? ?)

Thanks again,
Ken
The smallest T5 UV tubes are 22". T8 tubes just do not make enough UV to be useful. In your climate you will need good UV. Invest in a good Arcadia bulb and fixture.

No colored bulbs over tortoises. Use a flood bulb for basking and adjust the height to get the correct temperature under it.

The whole enclosure should be 80. They don't need a cool side and shouldn't have one. The two CHEs set on a thermostat would help with this.

Straw should;d not be fed to a tortoise. Dry grass hay is a great food for sulcatas, but that is for adults, not babies.
 
Top