Is me again.

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SummerNesreen

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Jan 20, 2020
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Hi Sudanese Sulcata. It seems you are really fixated on the fact that the climate in Florida will protect your baby sulcata. I would recommend checking out Camp Kenan on youtube for baby sulcata videos. He is a Florida native who runs a reptile sanctuary.

In this one he explains that he keeps his babies in a hardy rubbermaid stock tub that he is able to bring them outside for SOME natural sunlight.
However, as they are babies, he keeps them indoors, even in Florida! Another reason for this is Florida is a very wet place, and even in the warm summer their outdoor enclosures can become too wet and muddy, which causes problems for the health of this arid native tort.

Once they are older, of course they can spend most of their days outdoors, but Kenan has a sulcata shed to protect them from the winter elements in Florida, equipped with a heater.

You as a Florida native could probably even try to schedule a tour of Kenan's sanctuary and maybe get some first hand advice from him. If the Florida climate is your biggest deterrent, and you feel those of us on here don't know because we don't live there, then Camp Kenan's advice should be irrefutable.
 

Sarah2020

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I'm not taking the whole advice the $700 enclosure part i don't know why are you answering without knowing ?‍♂️ . But since you like animals i do still know that you are a good person so .whatever Helena. No beef ?.
Many people have enclosed enclosures and not spent $700. Agree you need to have to purchase heat, light and substrate but hatchlings need humidity in a controlled environment and that is why an enclosed env is recommended. All I read from your comments is attitude towards any help / advise. Please have a good read of the care sheets and apply what you can to your hatchling to provide the best start it can get in life.
 

Jodipg82

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May 10, 2020
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97
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Oviedo
The original 5M21 is what you want. It does have some sugar and the ingredient list is not all that impressive. However, almost nobody can get their tortoises to eat the other LS mazuri (it’s like trying to make my kids eat broccoli). The 5M21 has a proven track record and is fine as a small part of a varied diet.
I use the LS Mazuri as I have a baby Leopard Tort and don't want a 25lb bag of the 5M21. He eats it very well if I mix in opuntia. I also add some plantain, echinacea and mulberry that I got from Kapidolo.
 
Joined
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Location (City and/or State)
Florida
Hi Sudanese Sulcata. It seems you are really fixated on the fact that the climate in Florida will protect your baby sulcata. I would recommend checking out Camp Kenan on youtube for baby sulcata videos. He is a Florida native who runs a reptile sanctuary.

In this one he explains that he keeps his babies in a hardy rubbermaid stock tub that he is able to bring them outside for SOME natural sunlight.
However, as they are babies, he keeps them indoors, even in Florida! Another reason for this is Florida is a very wet place, and even in the warm summer their outdoor enclosures can become too wet and muddy, which causes problems for the health of this arid native tort.

Once they are older, of course they can spend most of their days outdoors, but Kenan has a sulcata shed to protect them from the winter elements in Florida, equipped with a heater.

You as a Florida native could probably even try to schedule a tour of Kenan's sanctuary and maybe get some first hand advice from him. If the Florida climate is your biggest deterrent, and you feel those of us on here don't know because we don't live there, then Camp Kenan's advice should be irrefutable.
You are not reading my post
I do follow him and i do exactly what he and others breeders do with his baby i don't see why yall mad about it ? Is dumb to think that i have a baby exposed to the rain or outside with not protection.
Like i said all the evidence is on the progress that he made,his shell and well that he is alive also.
 

Kwakin

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Sep 17, 2020
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Location (City and/or State)
California
You are not reading my post
I do follow him and i do exactly what he and others breeders do with his baby i don't see why yall mad about it ? Is dumb to think that i have a baby exposed to the rain or outside with not protection.
Like i said all the evidence is on the progress that he made,his shell and well that he is alive also.
Yeah, but dude, winter is coming so you should have an inside enclosure for when it get too cold and unbearable for the tort. my advice would be to build a mediu-sized enclosure inside, deep enough to burrow in, and a heat source.
 
Joined
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Location (City and/or State)
Florida
Yeah, but dude, winter is coming so you should have an inside enclosure for when it get too cold and unbearable for the tort. my advice would be to build a mediu-sized enclosure inside, deep enough to burrow in, and a heat source.
Miami Florida
 

Markw84

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Sacramento, CA (Central Valley)
Lots of back and forth here, and I will chime in only to add my 2¢ worth. Since you do seem to refer to the visual proof that you are doing right, let's look at your proof:

Your tortoise is continuing to pyramid. This is visual proof that conditions aren't just right. The new growth is pyramiding since you've had it.

Here's your photo showing how well its doing. Note the arrows I added. Those point out growth since you had it and show the pyramiding progressing. Zoom in to see it better.

FL sulcata with arrow.jpg

Here's one of my 4 month old sulcatas with notes on growth I look for. See the difference?

my smooth sulcata with note on keratin growth.jpg

I think what most people miss is that "weather' - temp and humidity is not what matters as much as the microclimate the tortoise can find to hide in. Tortoises are masters of taking advantage of microclimates. Baby and young tortoises spend 98% of their time hiding. They find a spot that is protected from the sun and virtually 100% humidity. They normally will have something touching the top of their shell holding in that moisture as well whether dirt or plant/grass fronds, leaf litter, etc. In Florida, California, or the Amazon, or Indonesia, you put a tortoise in an enclosure and you immediately alter the weather of your area and create a microclimate that is much different. The walls of the enclosure, the substrate you choose, the type of hides you have all change the environmental conditions your tortoise chooses to spend the bulk of its time in.

You like visual proof. Look at all the tortoises raised in their home ranges, yet raised in enclosures in semi-captive environments. They all are pyramided. Here's a photo from the largest managed population of Burmese Star tortoises at the preserve in Myanmar in the heart of their most desirable home range:

100s of Burms at sanctuary.jpg

They all are pyramiding. In the heart of "perfect climate" for them.

It is not the climate, but the microclimate. As soon as you put an enclosure outside anywhere, you alter the climate and limit the tortoises ability to find that perfect microclimate. As well as humidity, temperatures fluctuate too much with sun/no sun, night/day. The gut biome that is needed for health and metabolism is altered tremendously by lowered temperatures. Many of the bacteria needed for digestion in a tortoise gut dies off at temps below the high 70°s. In their chosen hiding spots in the wild, temperatures are extremely stable vs what it is out in the open a few feet away. In an enclosure outside it is extremely hard to control that.

We are learning more and more about what really keeps a tortoise healthy and thriving. Most breeders, including Kenan Harkin, and even zoos, are not keeping up with that and rely on the old outdated info and 'what worked for them" but didn't kill it! What I like about the forum is there are members here who are not content with that. We test and look for better. "Good enough" is the worst enemy of "great". Do you want good enough for your tortoise or great?
 
Joined
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Location (City and/or State)
Florida
I would be 100% down to listen if you weren't the one that sells the enclosure. And since you saw him before you know that is getting corrected not perfect but is definitely getting corrected almost at the same level.
 

Jenna kamenski

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Dec 27, 2017
Messages
94
Location (City and/or State)
South Carolina
These people are here to help you and help educate you, not bash you nor judge you...I have learned a lot from these people here on this forum and this is the absolute best place to come to learn. Am I a member of some of the tortoise Facebook pages on Facebook? Absolutely, but I take what they say with a grain of salt, I’m mainly there just to see the pics of other tortoises and post pics of torque and maybe try to help someone out if I’m able to. The people here on this forum have been through decades of trial and error and they know what works best. Also to add to the predators that are commonly found outside, not only are birds and stray cats and dogs are a problem and a threat but rats are as well...I’ve seen pictures of perfect looking enclosures and the rats STILL manage to find a way to get in and the end result is usually not that good. A rat will severely harm, if not worse, kill even an adult tortoise....just imagine what could happen to a hatchling! You’re gonna do whatever it is you choose to do but please remember these people spend their free time on here helping people bc they CARE, they don’t get paid to do this, they do this to help people out like you but please sit and think logically about this
 

Kwakin

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Sep 17, 2020
Messages
64
Location (City and/or State)
California
Oooooooh, yeah that’s good, thats a ceramic heater, I have that for my baby Russian. That is suitable for winter indoors time for your baby. And by the way, if it is below 60 degrees (Fahrenheit) then don’t have them outside
 
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