My Russian tort wants to brumate but I don't have the resources.

arami25

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Hey everyone,

I have an adult male russian tort named Little Foot. I live in Atlanta, GA and the outside temperatures here have been around 35-45 F for most days but at the peak of the day it can get up to 60 F. I can definitely tell that my tortoise wants to find a nice, dark, cool place to brumate for the rest of the rest of the winter, but I am just not ready for that because I do not have the money or space for a minifridge to maintain constant temperatures. Also my room temp is at 70-75 F.

This is what he keeps doing: He walks around the perimeter of his kiddy pool and wants to get out of it so there's constant scratching at the wall of the pool and it can get pretty irritating when I'm trying to sleep at night. I end up staying up and trying to put him to bed by encouraging him to burrow in his dirt. He just won't have it! Now, he's barely eating and doesn't even seem interested when I try to offer something that he likes. I still soak him to ensure he's hydrated and I still offer him food. I keep his lights on during the daytime and that's when the wall scratching begins, like he's demanding to get out and walk to a darker part of my room. He's been like this for about 5 days.

I really would like to give him what he wants because he was wild caught (I know I feel bad, but I've learned my lesson on that) and I was thinking about getting a storage bin and filling it all the way up with dirt so that he has enough depth to dig in and have constant temperatures to brumate. HOWEVER, I felt like that won't be a good idea because my room is not as cold as outside.
So now I don't know what else I can do to help him cope and not brumate this year. He didn't brumate last year and this is the second year I've had him. Basking temp is at 100-105 F and the rest of the enclosure gets 70-75F. I could put another basking light or CHE to increase overall enclosure temps. I was going to go to the hardware store and get him more dirt to dig into.

Suggestions?
Many thanks,
Amanda and Little Foot
 

Tom

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Hey everyone,

I have an adult male russian tort named Little Foot. I live in Atlanta, GA and the outside temperatures here have been around 35-45 F for most days but at the peak of the day it can get up to 60 F. I can definitely tell that my tortoise wants to find a nice, dark, cool place to brumate for the rest of the rest of the winter, but I am just not ready for that because I do not have the money or space for a minifridge to maintain constant temperatures. Also my room temp is at 70-75 F.

This is what he keeps doing: He walks around the perimeter of his kiddy pool and wants to get out of it so there's constant scratching at the wall of the pool and it can get pretty irritating when I'm trying to sleep at night. I end up staying up and trying to put him to bed by encouraging him to burrow in his dirt. He just won't have it! Now, he's barely eating and doesn't even seem interested when I try to offer something that he likes. I still soak him to ensure he's hydrated and I still offer him food. I keep his lights on during the daytime and that's when the wall scratching begins, like he's demanding to get out and walk to a darker part of my room. He's been like this for about 5 days.

I really would like to give him what he wants because he was wild caught (I know I feel bad, but I've learned my lesson on that) and I was thinking about getting a storage bin and filling it all the way up with dirt so that he has enough depth to dig in and have constant temperatures to brumate. HOWEVER, I felt like that won't be a good idea because my room is not as cold as outside.
So now I don't know what else I can do to help him cope and not brumate this year. He didn't brumate last year and this is the second year I've had him. Basking temp is at 100-105 F and the rest of the enclosure gets 70-75F. I could put another basking light or CHE to increase overall enclosure temps. I was going to go to the hardware store and get him more dirt to dig into.

Suggestions?
Many thanks,
Amanda and Little Foot
Your choices are to keep him up and warm, or hibernate him at the correct consistent temps. I mini-fridge on craggiest would probably cost the same as new bulbs, fixtures, mounts, cords and more dirt, but its up to you. If you do want to keep him up, adding more heat and light might help.

You won't find dirt at the hardware store. You'll find bought-in-a-bag soil which should not be used. You can't know what composted yard waste it is made from and it could be something toxic or poisonous. It is not made for animals to live on in indoor cages. Better to use actual dirt from a safe place around your house, or coco coir. Or both. But no sand.
 

arami25

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Atlanta, GA
Your choices are to keep him up and warm, or hibernate him at the correct consistent temps. I mini-fridge on craggiest would probably cost the same as new bulbs, fixtures, mounts, cords and more dirt, but its up to you. If you do want to keep him up, adding more heat and light might help.

You won't find dirt at the hardware store. You'll find bought-in-a-bag soil which should not be used. You can't know what composted yard waste it is made from and it could be something toxic or poisonous. It is not made for animals to live on in indoor cages. Better to use actual dirt from a safe place around your house, or coco coir. Or both. But no sand.
Okay, thanks. I did have a question about the dirt though. How come I've seen people on the forum suggest buying cypress mulch in bulk at a hardware store but you just said that stuff can have chemicals? I live in an apartment complex so I wouldn't be able to use the dirt around here unfortunately. Anything else I could use in combination with coco coir? I find that its too doesn't hold its moisture properly so I have to water it.
 

arami25

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I'm using Mini fridge with my Russian for his brumation... there are lots available pretty cheaply on FB or Craigslist or at Walmart.

Jamie
Yeah I could do that. At that point its the space I have to worry about. Since I am a college student I room with other people in the same apartment and I only have my bedroom to work with and that wouldn't fit at the moment. I am striving to get my own place next year so I will definitely brumate my tort then!
 

Maro2Bear

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The problem with “most” of the top soil / dirt that you can purchase at a garden center is that this dirt is usually meant to add to gardens or use in flower pots to grow flowers and veggies. More often than not, garden center topsoil / dirt has all kinds of additives (fertilizers, pesticides, perlite, vermiculite) mixed in - ‘cause thats what 99% of the ppl want (and need). Plain old regular “dirt” with nothing added is usually a rare commodity. You might get lucky & find some, but be VERY careful what you end up with.

It’s hard to keep a tort happy in a shared dorm room/house - not much space for you, let alone your tort.

Good luck!
 

arami25

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The problem with “most” of the top soil / dirt that you can purchase at a garden center is that this dirt is usually meant to add to gardens or use in flower pots to grow flowers and veggies. More often than not, garden center topsoil / dirt has all kinds of additives (fertilizers, pesticides, perlite, vermiculite) mixed in - ‘cause thats what 99% of the ppl want (and need). Plain old regular “dirt” with nothing added is usually a rare commodity. You might get lucky & find some, but be VERY careful what you end up with.

It’s hard to keep a tort happy in a shared dorm room/house - not much space for you, let alone your tort.

Good luck!
Thanks! I will be very careful
 

Tom

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Okay, thanks. I did have a question about the dirt though. How come I've seen people on the forum suggest buying cypress mulch in bulk at a hardware store but you just said that stuff can have chemicals? I live in an apartment complex so I wouldn't be able to use the dirt around here unfortunately. Anything else I could use in combination with coco coir? I find that its too doesn't hold its moisture properly so I have to water it.
Cypress mulch is fine. When you said dirt from the store, I thought you meant soil. And soil is not necessarily contaminated with chemicals, although it could be with all the different yard chemicals sold nowadays, but it can also just be toxic plants like oleander or azaleas. When I bought my property it had oleander all over it. I removed all of the oleander and it when into a yard waste bin. Those bins are picked up and the stuff inside is sold to composting companies who do their thing, put it in a bag, and sell it to stores that sell it to you. My oleander is sitting in a soil bag on a shelf somewhere, or someone already bought it and put it in their garden or plant pots. Because these companies are not sell animal bedding, they have no reason to even look at what sort of plants or yard chemicals they are using to make their product. They just put it all in a big pile and compost it up.

I once bought a bag of soil from the hardware store and some of the material hadn't fully composted. There were jacaranda leaves and stems present. Jacaranda is toxic. If I'd put my baby tortoise on that soil, they might have eaten those little jacaranda leaves. Not worth the risk. Cypress, orchid bark or coco coir are not toxic and should not be contaminated with anything.
 

Toddrickfl1

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Fellow Georgian here, I live in Gwinnett! You can get a big bag of Cypress mulch at home Depot here for about $3.
 

arami25

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Cypress mulch is fine. When you said dirt from the store, I thought you meant soil. And soil is not necessarily contaminated with chemicals, although it could be with all the different yard chemicals sold nowadays, but it can also just be toxic plants like oleander or azaleas. When I bought my property it had oleander all over it. I removed all of the oleander and it when into a yard waste bin. Those bins are picked up and the stuff inside is sold to composting companies who do their thing, put it in a bag, and sell it to stores that sell it to you. My oleander is sitting in a soil bag on a shelf somewhere, or someone already bought it and put it in their garden or plant pots. Because these companies are not sell animal bedding, they have no reason to even look at what sort of plants or yard chemicals they are using to make their product. They just put it all in a big pile and compost it up.

I once bought a bag of soil from the hardware store and some of the material hadn't fully composted. There were jacaranda leaves and stems present. Jacaranda is toxic. If I'd put my baby tortoise on that soil, they might have eaten those little jacaranda leaves. Not worth the risk. Cypress, orchid bark or coco coir are not toxic and should not be contaminated with anything.
Okay, thank you for the information. I will continue my substrate search! So if the cypress mulch is reddish in color or brown it’s still safe for tortoises to be on and dig into? It doesn’t have wood oils harmful to the tortoise? I remember I bought wood shavings as some bedding and you corrected me and told me that’s not good so I took it out and used coco coir. I thought the mulch, being wood, can also cause the same thing
 

Tom

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Okay, thank you for the information. I will continue my substrate search! So if the cypress mulch is reddish in color or brown it’s still safe for tortoises to be on and dig into? It doesn’t have wood oils harmful to the tortoise? I remember I bought wood shavings as some bedding and you corrected me and told me that’s not good so I took it out and used coco coir. I thought the mulch, being wood, can also cause the same thing
I would not use the artificially colored types of mulch. Just plain cypress mulch or plain fir bark (aka: orchid bark). Or the coir if you don't mind the mess.

Wood shavings are a totally different thing than the three substrates mentioned above.
 

RosemaryDW

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I’m not sure of your plan at this point. Is it to make a larger enclosure and/or warmer and brighter enclosure to keep him awake indoors? If so, that’s fine.

If it’s to keep him in your house in a storage bin it’s too warm, period; he will burn off too much energy. I also don’t see how a storage bin that is deep enough for a tortoise to truly dig in (deep) is going to be any larger than a mini fridge or the kiddy pool you already have in there? I don’t think that’s the plan at this point but want to be sure.

I’d find the $30 for a used mini fridge and use it; there are three on Craigslist near me right now between $25 and $50. A Russian-sized 1.7 cubic foot fridge is less than two foot high and deep, including leaving a couple of inches behind it so it’s not right on the wall.

Barring that, I’d let him brumate outside over using a storage box. Dug down in the cold with the occasional day at sixty degrees is much better than every day at seventy.

I can see you’re being very thoughtful so I’m guessing it’s the first option.
 

arami25

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I’m not sure of your plan at this point. Is it to make a larger enclosure and/or warmer and brighter enclosure to keep him awake indoors? If so, that’s fine.

If it’s to keep him in your house in a storage bin it’s too warm, period; he will burn off too much energy. I also don’t see how a storage bin that is deep enough for a tortoise to truly dig in (deep) is going to be any larger than a mini fridge or the kiddy pool you already have in there? I don’t think that’s the plan at this point but want to be sure.

I’d find the $30 for a used mini fridge and use it; there are three on Craigslist near me right now between $25 and $50. A Russian-sized 1.7 cubic foot fridge is less than two foot high and deep, including leaving a couple of inches behind it so it’s not right on the wall.

Barring that, I’d let him brumate outside over using a storage box. Dug down in the cold with the occasional day at sixty degrees is much better than every day at seventy.

I can see you’re being very thoughtful so I’m guessing it’s the first option.
Hey Rosemary,

Thanks for the feedback and concern. Yes, I did decide on keeping the enclosure temperatures up at 75-80 F by using the basking spot and the CHE. At night, I turn on my electric heater to warm up my room and keep it mid 70s. He seems to be responding a little better, his appetite is back and I just offered him more food because he ate what I first gave him. He still scratches at the side of the kiddy pool wanting to get out but I just pick him up and turn him to walk in another direction or place him in his little den.
Being that I am a student (thankfully on my last year) in college, I am struggling with the space situation because I only have my room to work with and the kiddy pool already takes up a good portion of my room (I could put like 3 mini fridges there) so room he has. I didn’t have him brumate last year so I thought waiting until I graduated wouldn’t be a problem so I could have more space and resources to do what I want with him. I WOULD LOVEEEE if I lived in a house so he could have an outdoor pen and brumate there but I’m not there yet. I will brumate him next winter because I am striving to get an apartment of my own.
 

Archie's mom

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I would not use the artificially colored types of mulch. Just plain cypress mulch or plain fir bark (aka: orchid bark). Or the coir if you don't mind the mess.

Wood shavings are a totally different thing than the three substrates mentioned above.
 

Archie's mom

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I use both zoo med forest floor cypress mulch and reptile bark along with Zilloa ground English walnut shells and zoomed eco earth coconut fiber ....all bought and recommended at country max store where I got Archie....I have them in different areas in the enclosure....are those ok to use?
 

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