Raven Warning

TylerStewart

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Saw a thread earlier about birds being a problem or not, but figured I'd post this as a new thread rather than a reply to that (which was a few weeks old) so it was a little more visible.

Probably a month ago, I bought a few Southern Ibera Greeks from a breeder we all know in the Northeast. I knew they were to go with a group we already had here, so I added them to the group to get some time to transition down for a month or more and sleep thru the winter in their eventual enclosure. They were yearlings and about 2.5-3" size.

We keep a lot of our tortoises in a remote area surrounded by cameras, and the cameras send me alerts to my phone with video and sound. I get several alerts every day (and more at night) about a rabbit running by, or a bird flying past, or a spider or bee right up in the camera lens, but this one happened on October 16th in the middle of the day and really pissed me off. A raven had found one of those two greeks, and flew up and perched right in front of one of my cameras with it. I found it later as an empty shell, just pecked out (limbs were there, but head was gone, and anything else it could pull out behind the head). All the other tortoises there are 4-5"+ size, and this has never been a problem before, but these smaller ones apparently still are. I know ravens eat a lot of baby desert tortoises here, but I figured at 2.5" size and very hardened, these were not going to be an issue. I was definitely wrong.

Just wanted to post this in case anyone was debating what size this can be an issue for.... We had 3" western Hermanns out there also and the other greek like this one that have both been brought inside again. We are building some very tight tolerance enclosures this winter with tops on them to keep out birds and rodents for these smaller tortoises going forward. Last summer we had a huge coyote problem, finally fenced in about 1/4 acre with a tall fence that goes down into the ground, but now it's a bird problem. Too may taller trees to easily put a top on it all. Before the coyotes was a rodent problem, we just keep traps out for them full time now, as they are never ending. Didn't realize I had a bird problem.

A few nights ago an owl landed on a camera at 2:30 AM also, set off the alarm, woke me up, and I was watching the video live. It flew away for 30 seconds at a time and then came back over and over and left beak (bite) marks all over the rubber cover on the camera. Not sure if they are a tortoise problem, either, but I'm still gonna be more careful with the less than 4" stuff.

Raven video here: https://scontent.flas1-1.fna.fbcdn....=f4ed24cbbcad10ac3c904503adb67bb7&oe=5E56A1F8

Owl video here: 75866447_231577644477326_6949554709707623980_n.mp4
 

Tom

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Thanks for sharing this info Tyler. Good to know. It demonstrates how different situations can have different results. We are surrounded by tortoise eating ravens here, but all the constant animal and human activity keeps them at bay.
 

Yvonne G

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I would love to have a night time camera to see what critters wander though my property at night.

That's awful about the raven and your new little tortoise. We've all heard the stories about ravens and crows killing and eating young desert tortoises, but I thought it was more or less a geographical thing. So sorry to read about this.
 

Kapidolo Farms

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I had a rat get into my garage and eat one baby tortoise. I don't know if I'll find it dead sometimes dried up, or it left.

It sorta looks like the owl had a rat, might not be so bad for the owl to be there.
 

2turtletom

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Tyler, thank you for sharing, how gut wrenching that video must be for you to watch. I keep adult Kinixys outside and I every once in a while have red-shouldered hawks perch on our electric/telephone/cable wires and look down into the enclosure, but so far, no issues.
 

enchilada

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ravens are smart birds, they can memorize what is threat to them and teach others in the local "raven community"
i say the best defense is offense. Strike FEAR among them . shoot couple of them and hang the dead bodies around your property as warning.
 

TammyJ

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This is sad. I always wondered, though - how about scarecrows? Is that just a myth? Are the ravens too smart to fall for that?
 

TylerStewart

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This is sad. I always wondered, though - how about scarecrows? Is that just a myth? Are the ravens too smart to fall for that?
I don't think they'd fall for scarecrows, they will land nearby if I'm there moving around, I don't think they'd care if there was a scarecrow. I just won't leave smaller tortoises exposed like that, after rodents in 2017, coyotes in 2018 and now this, I'd be embarrassed to admit how many tortoises I've lost to predators. The birds and rodents are mostly a problem with the smaller animals under 4" size. The coyotes I've had take 6-8" tortoises in many species. Last summer we had a 10" redfoot pulled out of her enclosure and I found her a few days later still on the property with a bunch of chew marks on the shell (coyotes), but it was fine. Other neighbors have complained to the game warden about the coyotes up in that area harassing their chickens and pets, and a friend that hunts them has been keeping them in check, haven't seen any sign of them this year. A few of them figured out that I had tortoises available, but those I think are gone now. New ones haven't found me yet, and a much taller (and deeper) fence around the tortoises in 2019 should keep them all out. They used to be exposed to the whole property (so anything in the property had access), but now the tortoise area has a second fence, and a lot more cameras that text me (non stop, every time a sparrow flies by LOL).
 

Yvonne G

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Tyler, refresh my memory. . . this is a property with no house on it, right? Is it very far from where you actually live? Do you worry about the two legged predators? Seems like I remember you talking about getting this property and setting it up for your tortoise operation, but then I don't remember any updates.
 

TylerStewart

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Tyler, refresh my memory. . . this is a property with no house on it, right? Is it very far from where you actually live? Do you worry about the two legged predators? Seems like I remember you talking about getting this property and setting it up for your tortoise operation, but then I don't remember any updates.
It's a property I bought in 2010 when the market crashed, I got it for nothing. It's about 5 miles from my house in a straight line. The neighbors up there are very aware of things in my area, and once a month will call me and tell me there's a truck lingering around out there, and they'll go chase them down. A year or so ago, a few teenagers were wandering in the desert at midnight with flashlights, and a neighbor called me, I ran out there, and he ran to them and they were just looking for lizards (never got that close to my place). I have a lot of cameras out there, mostly the Arlo Go cameras which have their own cell signal and solar panel and will alert me to motion (and record). I have them on every side of the property, so nobody can get to the fence line without me being alerted to it, and then I have a few more inside the property. It hasn't been a big deal, haven't had any break ins up there besides about 8 years ago someone tried to take diesel out of a tractor I had there that was pretty much out of diesel (no tortoises there at the time), and someone stole 2 tires off of a trailer I had there (before I had these cameras). Tortoise problems have all been predators with 4 legs or 2 wings.

It's looking like we are going to build a new house about 2 blocks from my current house, and will move everything there. I'll sit on the other place for 5-10 years and build/sell four houses up there some day. There's a piece of property right by my house that a few friends of ours are trying to buy as a group and split into 1 acre pieces, so that's the current project. It's less remote, more friends for the kids around, less costs to get utilities in, better school zoning, etc. The other place is zoned for a school 38 miles North of Vegas in the middle of the desert, they grab kids from the North end of Vegas to keep that school occupied, but it's a shady little town.
 

Yvonne G

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Sounds like you have it all under control, and good neighbors besides!
 

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