How Much Sex is too Much?

oneilmatt

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Hi all,

I've had a female-male pair of 3-toed box turtles for about 3 months now. The past few weeks, I often go outside to their enclosure to find the male sitting on top of the female. I assume they are mating. I have a few questions relating to that. How much mating is normal? Is every day normal? Is there such a thing as too much mating? Is he even mating with her, or just sitting on top?

I have no experience with the mating aspect so I'd love some help. Thanks!
 

Maro2Bear

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In the wild they roam about. Eventually a male will sniff out a female, mount/mate and move on each in their own directions. I’m guessing you have a relatively small enclosure, so this prevents the female from escaping and the male will continually mount. It’s best to separate.

I’m sure @ColleenT can assist here too..
 

Chubbs the tegu

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That poor guy.. what a rough life smh mating everyday i dont kno much about box turtles but im sure it could stress out the female is hes constantly harassing her. Im sure the experts will be here shortly. Good luck
 

oneilmatt

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In the wild they roam about. Eventually a male will sniff out a female, mount/mate and move on each in their own directions. I’m guessing you have a relatively small enclosure, so this prevents the female from escaping and the male will continually mount. It’s best to separate.

I’m sure @ColleenT can assist here too..
My enclosure is quite large as far as outdoor enclosures go, about 15 x 10 with tons of plants, sight barriers, and hides. How would I go about separating? I don't really have the means to keep them inside
 

Maro2Bear

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My enclosure is quite large as far as outdoor enclosures go, about 15 x 10 with tons of plants, sight barriers, and hides. How would I go about separating? I don't really have the means to keep them inside

Maybe some cinder blocks or landscaping blocks or multiple 2x12x16 boards.
 

oneilmatt

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You either need a few more females or to separate them. The male will harrass and stress her out to the point she could die.
Would 2 females be enough? Or do I need more? And can she last another month or so in there? They should be winding down for brumation around then. Thanks for your help!
 

ColleenT

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i would remove her from him now, and possibly one other would be enough, but you would have to keep an eye on him after that. If he seems to be on them all the time, remove him.
 

Ben02

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There is such a thing as over mating. The females cloaca can get very sore and can lead to infection. Separating them is the best option.
 

Tom

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My enclosure is quite large as far as outdoor enclosures go, about 15 x 10 with tons of plants, sight barriers, and hides. How would I go about separating? I don't really have the means to keep them inside
  • 10 x 15' is not large. That is pretty small. Consider how much they roam in the wild.
  • They should never be kept as a pair. The males will usually harass the females leading to sickness or death.
  • No one can say if adding another female, or two or three, would settle him down. Maybe. Or maybe he'd go after all of them all of the time. In such a small area, they can't escape his "attention". Even if the pen was the entire back yard, he might still search for them. If they are contained in an enclosure of some sort, they can't hide or escape from him.
  • No, she cannot suffer through another month or two of this, and that would really leave her in bad shape for hibernation, even if she did survive.
  • The solution is to make another pen for him and move him. She is already stressed enough. Moving her would not help this. I would make the enclosures far apart. They will still smell each other if you just put up a dividing wall in the existing enclosure. He'll go mad and possibly hurt himself trying to get to her if he can smell her on the other side of a barrier.
 

mark1

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i'd guess my box turtle pen is 25'x25' , if I remember correctly there are 5 males and 4 females in it …… while I do observe breeding , it's nothing that has appeared or proven to be detrimental to anyones health ……… the females are out and about possibly more often than the males …….. I personally believe that breeding is a visual , by chance thing …I believe there is substantial evidence backing up that belief ……… I've seen quite a few long term studies of box turtle range , and use of habitat …... I've yet to see someone observing a male box turtle leaving it's known home range to breed a female whose home range did not overlap his ……. there have been studies that used sight barrier between male and female box turtle in order to observe breeding behavior …..... the males don't seem to seek out the females unless they see them ...….I think if they did , what is said in this thread would apply here also , it doesn't ……… out of what i'm pretty sure is 5 males , the only reason i'm guessing is the last time I was interested was a long time ago , and I believe the count was 5 males , and I believe there are 9 turtles in there , out of those 5 males I've only ever seen 2 breed , for the most part only one of the two ……… I would guess your problem is more that your turtles are new to each other and their environment ……... if I put a strange turtle in an existing pen with other turtles , that turtle will get a large amount of attention , and aggression , if it's an aggressive turtle , he or she will give a lot of attention or aggression , mounting doesn't appear to me to be just a breeding behavior ……… given lots of cover , roots to dig into , brush to get under , corners , clumps of grass to dig into , i'd guess the behavior will diminish , adding another female would help ……. my opinion is given time it will diminish and become a more normal behavior , turtles are territorial …if you bring them in the house I would agree not to keep them together ……. the 9 turtles I mentioned here all hibernate in the same leaf pile , in an area of maybe 40-50 square feet … adult box turtles are about as physically protected as any turtle there is , the only thing around me that can harm one is a large dog , maybe a determined coyote ……...

this guy is as big as an eastern box turtle gets , at least that I've ever seen , really dominant as evident by his eyes , at least from what I've seen …… he doesn't harass anyone to any excessive amount , I actually hardly ever see him ……...

Aviary-Photo-131712255334905738.jpg
 

oneilmatt

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  • 10 x 15' is not large. That is pretty small. Consider how much they roam in the wild.
  • They should never be kept as a pair. The males will usually harass the females leading to sickness or death.
  • No one can say if adding another female, or two or three, would settle him down. Maybe. Or maybe he'd go after all of them all of the time. In such a small area, they can't escape his "attention". Even if the pen was the entire back yard, he might still search for them. If they are contained in an enclosure of some sort, they can't hide or escape from him.
  • No, she cannot suffer through another month or two of this, and that would really leave her in bad shape for hibernation, even if she did survive.
  • The solution is to make another pen for him and move him. She is already stressed enough. Moving her would not help this. I would make the enclosures far apart. They will still smell each other if you just put up a dividing wall in the existing enclosure. He'll go mad and possibly hurt himself trying to get to her if he can smell her on the other side of a barrier.

Thank you for your reply and advice. How do I know what "harassment" is from the male? How much mating is too much? Finally, how do I tell if my female is stressed?

i'd guess my box turtle pen is 25'x25' , if I remember correctly there are 5 males and 4 females in it …… while I do observe breeding , it's nothing that has appeared or proven to be detrimental to anyones health ……… the females are out and about possibly more often than the males …….. I personally believe that breeding is a visual , by chance thing …I believe there is substantial evidence backing up that belief ……… I've seen quite a few long term studies of box turtle range , and use of habitat …... I've yet to see someone observing a male box turtle leaving it's known home range to breed a female whose home range did not overlap his ……. there have been studies that used sight barrier between male and female box turtle in order to observe breeding behavior …..... the males don't seem to seek out the females unless they see them ...….I think if they did , what is said in this thread would apply here also , it doesn't ……… out of what i'm pretty sure is 5 males , the only reason i'm guessing is the last time I was interested was a long time ago , and I believe the count was 5 males , and I believe there are 9 turtles in there , out of those 5 males I've only ever seen 2 breed , for the most part only one of the two ……… I would guess your problem is more that your turtles are new to each other and their environment ……... if I put a strange turtle in an existing pen with other turtles , that turtle will get a large amount of attention , and aggression , if it's an aggressive turtle , he or she will give a lot of attention or aggression , mounting doesn't appear to me to be just a breeding behavior ……… given lots of cover , roots to dig into , brush to get under , corners , clumps of grass to dig into , i'd guess the behavior will diminish , adding another female would help ……. my opinion is given time it will diminish and become a more normal behavior , turtles are territorial …if you bring them in the house I would agree not to keep them together ……. the 9 turtles I mentioned here all hibernate in the same leaf pile , in an area of maybe 40-50 square feet … adult box turtles are about as physically protected as any turtle there is , the only thing around me that can harm one is a large dog , maybe a determined coyote ……...

this guy is as big as an eastern box turtle gets , at least that I've ever seen , really dominant as evident by his eyes , at least from what I've seen …… he doesn't harass anyone to any excessive amount , I actually hardly ever see him ……...

Aviary-Photo-131712255334905738.jpg
Thanks for your reply and different perspective. I take everything I read here into consideration, so I appreciate it. Beautiful turtle, by the way!
 

lynnedit

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@oneilmatt , if the male is just sitting on top, that is bullying and yes, possibly mating. If you are seeing this behavior ‘often’, then it is too much. Turtles and tortoises can hide illness, and the fact that they are stressed will not be obvious, but must be assumed given the situation.
The female is being harassed and can’t go about finding food/water and winding herself down for hibernation.
As others have mentioned, please put a divider down the middle asap
 

mark1

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personally I seriously doubt you have an emergency , these are box turtles, they are incapable of hurting each other ,I believe they know that , it is not possible for a male to breed an unreceptive female , they are "box" turtles , an adult box turtle is all but large predator proof ……….. this is not like other types of turtles or tortoises , where they can actually bite each other , or drown each other ….they can wedge in a corner or under a root and sleep , another box turtle is harmless to them …..... turtles without box turtle type protection , where you'll see one actually chasing one , one running from the other , the one being chased actually looking distressed and needing to escape , they are vulnerable of being bitten in the legs and tail , mounted and the one on top trying to bite the others face , these guys just close up enough to be safe and wait for the the other to go away , I've seen females just sit there peeking out , waiting ……they do naturally breed more often late summer, early fall … is one stoping the other from eating ? or harass her while she's eating ? an enclosure of 150 square feet imo is certainly large enough for 2 box turtles , it's probably better than 99.9% of captive box turtles are getting , in the wild during the summer (after nesting season) they've been shown to move like 60 feet a day ……… I personally would take those cinder blocks and line up 3 or 4 in the center of the enclosure , maybe put one or two perpendicular to the others to make an L shape , shrubs are better than non-woody plants as a form of safe cover ……. you may have some type of hyper aggressive box turtle there , possibly three toed box turtles are more aggressive type than easterns ….. I firsthand know N A wood turtles are way more aggressive , and can actually harm each other ......I have probably 17 eastern box turtles here and have not seen one harm another in the 19yrs that pen has been there ……. was out yesterday loosening the soil where they hibernate , I dug up a nest with one already hatched baby eastern, over the years 9 of them have survived in that pen , box turtles , at least from what I've seen are not aggressive turtles , I assure you a hatchling wood turtle would not survive in a wood turtle pen , they'd be food ……… fall is breeding time , i'd not jump to a conclusion , but as I said maybe you have a hyper-aggressive individual …… i'm not advising , i'm telling you what I've seen and see everyday …… but as shown in another thread I posted too , my experience is just that , my individual experience and interpretation of those experiences …..…..
 

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