Box Turtle with Bloody Face

KellBell

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Hi All,

We've had our eastern box for a few years now, took her in from a friend where she was the sole turtle, but their new puppy kept harassing her. We noticed last year the occasional bit of blood on her face, thought it was from dry skin or opening wide when feeding. This year it's much more pronounced though. She has good energy and appetite. I also noticed a little bump near her left eye. Please see photos. Any advice is much appreciated.

IMG_3863.JPG IMG_3864.JPG IMG_3865.JPG IMG_3866.JPG
 

dmmj

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Hmmm that's odd, any open wounds or scratches?
 

jsheffield

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#fightclub

I would suggest washing off the blood and then watching for a bit to see if it comes back (and if so, where it comes from)... it's possible the blood is from other beasties your turt is feeding on.

Jamie
 

TammyJ

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What is her enclosure? Is she kept outdoors? She is being injured from time to time somehow, it appears?
 

KellBell

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She's in an outdoor enclosure, approx 6x4 feet. Nothing bothering her that I know of, but I can put the racks on. Jamie, now that you mention it, the blood does seem to coincide with her gorging on worms (her absolute favorite), I'll wash her off and then watch to see if it comes back.

Thank you for the thoughts and suggestions.
 

Yvonne G

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Your little box turtle is a three toed box turtle (Terrapene carolina triunguis), and that looks to me like it came from something she has eaten.
 

TammyJ

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Worms don't have red blood, right? Hmmm. Maybe she is being attacked by a small creature like a rat and she bites it and it bleeds, maybe she bites it and keeps her grip on it while she tucks in her head before it finally gets away?
 

KellBell

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Thank you for the clarification Yvonne.

I don't know about worms and if they have blood Tammy. I'll keep her enclosure covered for a while and see how things go. I did find a vet that cares for turtles in Roseville just in case.
 

KellBell

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I washed her off and noticed an ulcer on her face, next to her nose and beneath the left eye. Difficult to adequately show in the photos. I can't see if it's a laceration or an open sore - it bleeds quite a bit. I've put antibiotic ointment on it x two days, hopefully it helps. If not, I guess it's off to the vet she goes.

IMG_3871.JPG IMG_3874.JPG
 

Madame Terrapene

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Hi KellBell,

Thanks for the good pictures. Any updates? I've treated a lot of random turtle wounds (bot fly, abscess, dog bite, run over by car etc). Please email me if you have any specific questions and I'll try to direct you to the best solution (vet or detail-oriented home treatment). [email protected]
 

KellBell

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Hi Madame ~ thank you, her nose/face seems to be better as long as I keep the antibiotic ointment on it. If I miss a day, it begins to bleed again and we takes two steps back. I'm trying to be patient :).
 

Yvonne G

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Hi KellBell,

Thanks for the good pictures. Any updates? I've treated a lot of random turtle wounds (bot fly, abscess, dog bite, run over by car etc). Please email me if you have any specific questions and I'll try to direct you to the best solution (vet or detail-oriented home treatment). [email protected]
It's been asked here before: Why would we email when more people benefit from reading responses here on the Forum. We're not about personal conversations, were here to learn from each other. We do have a private message service. If you insist upon receiving emails, I suggest yousend the person a private message asking them to email you. When more and more new people read that you accept emails, pretty soon we have lost our base membership. Not a good thing.
 

Yvonne G

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I washed her off and noticed an ulcer on her face, next to her nose and beneath the left eye. Difficult to adequately show in the photos. I can't see if it's a laceration or an open sore - it bleeds quite a bit. I've put antibiotic ointment on it x two days, hopefully it helps. If not, I guess it's off to the vet she goes.

View attachment 272777 View attachment 272778
That looks like what skin looks like after red ants have been feasting on it. I suggest after next time you wash it off, gently press a covered ice cube on it to slow the bleeding, then pat it dry and apply your first aid ointment.
 

KellBell

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That looks like what skin looks like after red ants have been feasting on it. I suggest after next time you wash it off, gently press a covered ice cube on it to slow the bleeding, then pat it dry and apply your first aid ointment.

I'll try that Yvonne. Thank you.
 

Madame Terrapene

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It's been asked here before: Why would we email when more people benefit from reading responses here on the Forum. We're not about personal conversations, were here to learn from each other. We do have a private message service. If you insist upon receiving emails, I suggest yousend the person a private message asking them to email you. When more and more new people read that you accept emails, pretty soon we have lost our base membership. Not a good thing.

Apologies Yvonne, I understand your meaning completely as I also find forum threads very helpful. I just check my email more often than the forum and wouldn't want someone to ask me a question only to have it go unanswered. I'll make sure to add any valuable email conversations to the relevant thread to make sure that the info gets shared.
 

Madame Terrapene

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Hi Madame ~ thank you, her nose/face seems to be better as long as I keep the antibiotic ointment on it. If I miss a day, it begins to bleed again and we takes two steps back. I'm trying to be patient :).

Hi KellBell,

It's good that you're applying ointment to it. Like you said, a vet trip is always an option if it's not improving after awhile or getting worse. Sometimes the good turtle vets are hard to get to in an emergency (may take a couple of days to be seen), so I wouldn't let it get too far gone if it starts worsening. You're being very attentive so far, so keep up the good work and if it's just a simple wound it will probably heal. To help it heal, and If you aren't already, I would try washing the area with a q-tip before you apply new ointment (I wrote out how I do cleanings below). You can try the ice cube like Yvonne suggested. Since the bleeding is persistent, I would look for a cause as well. Is there a possibility that a fly larvae or debris is in there, or a little furry critter or insects munching on her at night? I had one turtle given to me with a persistently bleeding mouth only to discover that there was a piece of organic debris lodged into the corner of their mouth. Botfly larvae aren't out of the realm of possibility either. I've also had crickets bite reptiles during the night time and cause mysterious non-healing wounds. Maybe you should try a hospital tank setup to see if the wound heals quicker when she's away from her environment (also described below).

To do a good, at-home wound cleaning: You can use a Betadine (povidone-iodine) soaked q-tip followed by a rinse with a couple of regular warm water q-tips. I use q-tips in a spiral motion, starting from the middle of the wound and moving out, then chunk the q-tip and get another. I use probably about 3-5 q-tips per cleaning. Just regular q-tips straight from the package. If the wound is really tender, q tip fluff is getting caught on the wound, or the turtle won't stay still, you can rinse under a gentle stream of water under the faucet, but the Betadine application is important. If you have trouble keeping the Betadine out of the eye, I would dilute to half or a quarter strength and use that dilute solution instead of full strength. If the Betadine is easy to keep out of the eye, you can put a second application of Betadine before the ointment; let the Betadine dry on the wound, and then apply new ointment coat. I would avoid Hibiclens (chlorhexidine gluconate) for cleaning in this situation, since it's so close to the eye and Hibiclens is pretty harsh on eyeballs. If you don't have Betadine, a lightly soaped q-tip followed by a rinse is better than nothing. I use little disposable cups to mix whatever solutions I need and then just throw them out every day. Easy and sanitary :)

Hospital tank info: It's sometimes helpful to remove the turtle from their outside pen and put them in an indoor hospital tank for a few days to a week to allow things to heal. This will also help keep dirt/bugs/small furry animals out of the wound. If you've never done the hospital tank before, it's really easy. There's probably a ton of suggestions on this forum about how best to do it, but I'll just describe my quick method here to get you started. Most turtles will be OK with a cardboard box with a big towel or shredded newspaper to burrow into. For temperatures, I usually aim for 85* on the warm side of the box and room temp on the other side. I typically create this gradient with a reliable people heating pad and towels for insulation between the heating pad and box as needed. You can use a lamp too. Honestly I usually close the box to reduce light and keep their movement down so they can just rest and heal, but make sure that the interior doesn't get too warm if you close the box. I take them out of hospital box and give them a long lukewarm bath daily during hospital time. Some people prefer to keep a water bowl in there, which you can do if you prefer or find it better for your turt. I don't since I do daily long soaks and no water bowl will mean no water bowl spillage. As long as they're a healthy weight, they'll be OK without food during a week of hospital tank time. Vets do it all the time.

Keep up the good attention and I'm sure you'll find a solution!
 

KellBell

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Roseville, CA
Hi KellBell,

It's good that you're applying ointment to it. Like you said, a vet trip is always an option if it's not improving after awhile or getting worse. Sometimes the good turtle vets are hard to get to in an emergency (may take a couple of days to be seen), so I wouldn't let it get too far gone if it starts worsening. You're being very attentive so far, so keep up the good work and if it's just a simple wound it will probably heal. To help it heal, and If you aren't already, I would try washing the area with a q-tip before you apply new ointment (I wrote out how I do cleanings below). You can try the ice cube like Yvonne suggested. Since the bleeding is persistent, I would look for a cause as well. Is there a possibility that a fly larvae or debris is in there, or a little furry critter or insects munching on her at night? I had one turtle given to me with a persistently bleeding mouth only to discover that there was a piece of organic debris lodged into the corner of their mouth. Botfly larvae aren't out of the realm of possibility either. I've also had crickets bite reptiles during the night time and cause mysterious non-healing wounds. Maybe you should try a hospital tank setup to see if the wound heals quicker when she's away from her environment (also described below).

To do a good, at-home wound cleaning: You can use a Betadine (povidone-iodine) soaked q-tip followed by a rinse with a couple of regular warm water q-tips. I use q-tips in a spiral motion, starting from the middle of the wound and moving out, then chunk the q-tip and get another. I use probably about 3-5 q-tips per cleaning. Just regular q-tips straight from the package. If the wound is really tender, q tip fluff is getting caught on the wound, or the turtle won't stay still, you can rinse under a gentle stream of water under the faucet, but the Betadine application is important. If you have trouble keeping the Betadine out of the eye, I would dilute to half or a quarter strength and use that dilute solution instead of full strength. If the Betadine is easy to keep out of the eye, you can put a second application of Betadine before the ointment; let the Betadine dry on the wound, and then apply new ointment coat. I would avoid Hibiclens (chlorhexidine gluconate) for cleaning in this situation, since it's so close to the eye and Hibiclens is pretty harsh on eyeballs. If you don't have Betadine, a lightly soaped q-tip followed by a rinse is better than nothing. I use little disposable cups to mix whatever solutions I need and then just throw them out every day. Easy and sanitary :)

Hospital tank info: It's sometimes helpful to remove the turtle from their outside pen and put them in an indoor hospital tank for a few days to a week to allow things to heal. This will also help keep dirt/bugs/small furry animals out of the wound. If you've never done the hospital tank before, it's really easy. There's probably a ton of suggestions on this forum about how best to do it, but I'll just describe my quick method here to get you started. Most turtles will be OK with a cardboard box with a big towel or shredded newspaper to burrow into. For temperatures, I usually aim for 85* on the warm side of the box and room temp on the other side. I typically create this gradient with a reliable people heating pad and towels for insulation between the heating pad and box as needed. You can use a lamp too. Honestly I usually close the box to reduce light and keep their movement down so they can just rest and heal, but make sure that the interior doesn't get too warm if you close the box. I take them out of hospital box and give them a long lukewarm bath daily during hospital time. Some people prefer to keep a water bowl in there, which you can do if you prefer or find it better for your turt. I don't since I do daily long soaks and no water bowl will mean no water bowl spillage. As long as they're a healthy weight, they'll be OK without food during a week of hospital tank time. Vets do it all the time.

Keep up the good attention and I'm sure you'll find a solution!

Hi Madame,

Thank you for the detailed and extensive advice! I haven't been cleaning around the area per se, because it does easily get into her eye.

I'll see if I can't see inside her mouth at and I like your suggestion of a hospital box, which I may set up here soon. I don't know of anything getting at her. Her enclosure is covered now and has been since I first posted, but that doesn't keep out little insects and such.

Again, thank you. I'll keep you posted :)
 
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