outdoor enclosure help

Lucygoose100

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Deforest WI
I have a question for those of you in the Midwest (WI, MN, MI, IL, etc). Do you place a cover over your outdoor enclosures to protect from predators? I live in WI and there are critters everywhere including hawks and foxes (although my yard is fenced). Also, do you leave your shell babies in the outdoor homes overnight when the weather permits
I am building my first enclosure for my two boys and am trying to come up with a plan.
So far I have some older raised garden beds that will converted to tort summer homes (12ft x6ft) in space, hoping they will love the wandering room. They will be in an area that gets full morning and early afternoon sun and shade later into the day. The are is mostly weeds right now but I am going to have a section fill with substrate of black dirt to dig and plant some hide plants. I also am going to make a shallow pool space for them to soak.

Looking for any advice.
Thanks
 

Yvonne G

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Here in Central California there are opossum, skunks, coyotes, birds of prey, wandering neighbor dogs, etc. I have large outdoor enclosures that would be impossible to cover. I did have trouble with a racoon a couple years ago and lost a few box turtles, but mainly no predators come on the property. I have a large dog and many cats. I think the scent of my dog is what keeps the predators away. The racoon from a while back was pregnant, and I guess she didn't want to go far to forage. I think she lived in an abandoned shed at my next door neighbor's.

If you take a look at Chris's pictures of his outdoor enclosures, you can see how he put up hot wire around them. Watch the video at https://www.gardenstatetortoise.com/
 

Lucygoose100

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Location (City and/or State)
Deforest WI
Here in Central California there are opossum, skunks, coyotes, birds of prey, wandering neighbor dogs, etc. I have large outdoor enclosures that would be impossible to cover. I did have trouble with a racoon a couple years ago and lost a few box turtles, but mainly no predators come on the property. I have a large dog and many cats. I think the scent of my dog is what keeps the predators away. The racoon from a while back was pregnant, and I guess she didn't want to go far to forage. I think she lived in an abandoned shed at my next door neighbor's.

If you take a look at Chris's pictures of his outdoor enclosures, you can see how he put up hot wire around them. Watch the video at https://www.gardenstatetortoise.com/


Thanks I will take a look. I also have a large dog and have not had any issues with the foxes coming into the yard. My bigger concern is the birds of prey.

Kelly
 

Yvonne G

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Thanks I will take a look. I also have a large dog and have not had any issues with the foxes coming into the yard. My bigger concern is the birds of prey.

Kelly
I think birds of prey are pretty species specific. I don't think we have any that prey on turtles/tortoises.
 

dmmj

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out here in California crows & ravens flip over baby California desert tortoises & kill them and eat them, now groups of crows & ravens are flipping over. bigger baby tortoises than they used to
 

RosemaryDW

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Welcome!

My vet advised that our small to medium sized birds of prey (in my area of California) are not at all likely to take an adult Russian. Perhaps if you had a hungry eagle, but I can’t imagine you do out there?

I can’t imagine a fox taking one; too small to manage it (the fox) and not tempting enough unless the fox was sick/starving.

I worry about raccoons, which we are just starting to get in my young neighborhood, but as they are nocturnal and my tortoise is away at night, not too much. Her nightbox locks and her summer burrow is just big enough for her to turn around. I can barely reach her and my arm is much longer than a raccoon’s. If she was a soft juicy turtle instead of a crusty tortoise I’d build a cover with deer wire.
 

Cowboy_Ken

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I really respect crows and ravens for their both intelligence and perseverance. A favorite food in the suburban life is road-kill. Also trash day is big hit for grubbing.
A young tortoise is just a fun day time food item. And then we’ve got omnivorous jays. Don’t worry about the robins, sparrows or doves, they all are primarily seed and grub eaters. I didn’t spell check any of that, I hope it reads as I heard it in my head while a wrote it. LOL
 

dmmj

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Welcome!

My vet advised that our small to medium sized birds of prey (in my area of California) are not at all likely to take an adult Russian. Perhaps if you had a hungry eagle, but I can’t imagine you do out there?

I can’t imagine a fox taking one; too small to manage it (the fox) and not tempting enough unless the fox was sick/starving.

I worry about raccoons, which we are just starting to get in my young neighborhood, but as they are nocturnal and my tortoise is away at night, not too much. Her nightbox locks and her summer burrow is just big enough for her to turn around. I can barely reach her and my arm is much longer than a raccoon’s. If she was a soft juicy turtle instead of a crusty tortoise I’d build a cover with deer wire.
Not to worry you too much but the raccoons get bolder as more and more food becomes available in trash cans I can't tell you how many I see out & about during the daytime, plus they lose their fear o f humans eventually. Not to be mean but I suggest getting a 22 caliber rifle & start taking them out
 

Cowboy_Ken

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Not to be mean but I suggest getting a 22 caliber rifle & start taking them out

After y’all check that y’all are within the laws of your area, I too encourage you to help them die of lead poisoning. Same goes with opossum, skunks, coyotes all those carnivorous critters.
 

RosemaryDW

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Not to worry you too much but the raccoons get bolder as more and more food becomes available in trash cans I can't tell you how many I see out & about during the daytime, plus they lose their fear o f humans eventually. Not to be mean but I suggest getting a 22 caliber rifle & start taking them out

They certainly will get bolder but we have a few years yet.

We’ve lived on a crick next to an orange grove so we’re not brand new to it but we are still city folk enough to get excited about trash pandas; no guns in our future, just stronger trash can lids. :)
 

dmmj

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They certainly will get bolder but we have a few years yet.

We’ve lived on a crick next to an orange grove so we’re not brand new to it but we are still city folk enough to get excited about trash pandas; no guns in our future, just stronger trash can lids. :)
Not trying to tell you what to do but trash cans are just the beginning, leftover tortoise food 2 the tortoise themselves. Lots of things attract raccoons, but best of luck to you
 

DancesWithDinosaurs

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I have a question for those of you in the Midwest (WI, MN, MI, IL, etc). Do you place a cover over your outdoor enclosures to protect from predators? I live in WI and there are critters everywhere including hawks and foxes (although my yard is fenced). Also, do you leave your shell babies in the outdoor homes overnight when the weather permits
I am building my first enclosure for my two boys and am trying to come up with a plan.
So far I have some older raised garden beds that will converted to tort summer homes (12ft x6ft) in space, hoping they will love the wandering room. They will be in an area that gets full morning and early afternoon sun and shade later into the day. The are is mostly weeds right now but I am going to have a section fill with substrate of black dirt to dig and plant some hide plants. I also am going to make a shallow pool space for them to soak.

Looking for any advice.
Thanks
Yes you absolutely must cover your enclosures fully!! You also need to put slate, pavers, large tile, concrete or secured tiny holed rolled hardware cloth (wire type of mesh roll) down underneath the soil in the enclosure!! Beside your tort digging down & out, many predators can dog down over & up into your enclosure. Even turtle club rescuers are obscenely careless & say "What are the odds that will happen?" Then they get their turtle's & torts killed & say "Oops well that's nature." So let your kid play in the middle of the freeway then. Grrr!! I've had people tell me their 3 turtle's were killed by an ant invasion, rat's, mice, owls, cat's, opossum, dog's, hawks, crushed by their horse, skunks, raccoons, bobcats & other cruel ways to die. Easily prevented by covering the habitat 24/7! Even adding metal security screen doors in a row across your enclosure, until you can build something taller, can keep your tort or turtle, safe & able to have sunshine. You can shade a portion with shade cloth or an umbrella.
We used an extra long dog run that was used for rehabbing injured waterfowl & turned it into a habitat for an Eastern Box. We had to cover the entire wire panels because they are large enough to let in too many predators. We dug down & placed pavers underneath & covered the roof with 2 layers of wire mesh protection, shade cloth at one end & in the winter we add heavy tarp across 3/4 of the roof. We let him hibernate outside in a large deep chest in his enclosure. The lid has small opening & during the day we open the lid to let the leaves & soil mixture get sunshine like the earth would naturally get. At night we cover it again. We check at least twice a day for ant's. Twice we've put out safe ant bait set inside of a plastic cup, taped up away from any animal or turtle. We hosed down the ant's inside his habitat & sprayed vinegar all around the outside of his habitat every few day's. That keeps ant's out & the ant trap took care of the ant hole & prevents future armies of ant's. Having a habitat you can go into with your turtle & plant nice herbs & flowers for him, is nice. You can bring in a chair & visit with him. I bring ours out to swim in our low area of our stream & to go on walks on our acreage but I carry an umbrella over him. Our nursery lady watched her large cat get snatched up by an owl feet from where she stood. I had a hawk snatch a gosling that was feet away from me under a tree! Our pond turtle's have shrubs, trees & deep water to dive into & hide under. A tort or turtle is too at risk (in my opinion & hearing about other people's tragedies) that I don't put him at risk. Best of luck:)
 

Donna Albu

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Peoria, Maricopa County, AZ
Here in Central California there are opossum, skunks, coyotes, birds of prey, wandering neighbor dogs, etc. I have large outdoor enclosures that would be impossible to cover. I did have trouble with a racoon a couple years ago and lost a few box turtles, but mainly no predators come on the property. I have a large dog and many cats. I think the scent of my dog is what keeps the predators away. The racoon from a while back was pregnant, and I guess she didn't want to go far to forage. I think she lived in an abandoned shed at my next door neighbor's.

If you take a look at Chris's pictures of his outdoor enclosures, you can see how he put up hot wire around them. Watch the video at https://www.gardenstatetortoise.com/
I'm definitely not from your area of the country, but we have predators here - including my own dogs. My torts are pretty much full grown now, but when they were smaller, and moved permanently outside into their 75' by 15' enclosure, I fully covered the none-cement portions of the enclosure with bird netting (the type that you would use to cover a fruit tree to prevent the birds from eating the fruit. I stitched the netting to the wire fencing with double strand worsted weight yarn. In spite of our wicked sun (Phoenix, Arizona), it held up very well (about 7 years). and we did not have to worry about the hawks, owls, grackles, coyotes, bobcats, etc.2007-8-5 Habitat.JPG 2007-8-5 Habitat.JPG 2009-5-15 Habitat before shade screens.JPG 2007-8-5 Habitat.JPG 2009-5-15 Habitat before shade screens.JPG 2008-4-19 Donna securing the bird netting.JPG
 

DancesWithDinosaurs

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Yokes
Wow! Crows and ravens are smart. Interesting.[/QUO YIKES! Yes they are very smart. I plant fruit tree's, roses & all sorts of flower's, herbs & grasses on our land to help support bird's. Maybe as an extra precaution plant lots of sunflowers & speard seed away from any habitat. When I spread food for the rescued waterfowl, I do it on the back acreage & the bird's join in. I also put up metal crane's around our ponds & move them daily because Egrets & most crane's respect another crane's territory. I have 2 realistic fake owls I put up when I walk the dinosaur too. Lol.. Bird's are so very smart!
 

DancesWithDinosaurs

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I'm definitely not from your area of the country, but we have predators here - including my own dogs. My torts are pretty much full grown now, but when they were smaller, and moved permanently outside into their 75' by 15' enclosure, I fully covered the none-cement portions of the enclosure with bird netting (the type that you would use to cover a fruit tree to prevent the birds from eating the fruit. I stitched the netting to the wire fencing with double strand worsted weight yarn. In spite of our wicked sun (Phoenix, Arizona), it held up very well (about 7 years). and we did not have to worry about the hawks, owls, grackles, coyotes, bobcats, etc.View attachment 272036 View attachment 272036 View attachment 272037 View attachment 272036 View attachment 272037 View attachment 272038
Amazing picture's! Rats will wear down a tort to exhaustion than start eating it alive. But in most cases you should see rodent droppings & know they are around. I've sadly seen cases with turtle's killed or so badly chewed they were euthanized. Some that had toes eaten away were able to be treated & survived. We plan to make a giant enclosure in the future. 16 feet long by 8 feet wide is what he has right now. We took him in from another rehabber & rescuer that trusted us to take him because she wanted him when she faced health issue's. So we had to make something fast. I'm hoping after we finish work on our house that we can add a sunroom or screened in room at the end of the house & the dinosaur will live in luxury. Lol.. Until then the rambling rose is growing on one side & we sprinkle petals & cut open rose hips to put in his habitat. A racoon chewed through fiberglass roofing panels we had over the chicken coop. We have all sizes of Havaheart live traps & safely relocated a trio of racoons. Because we have big ponds, thirsty wildlife seek us out. The guardian llamas keep out most predators but Opossom & racoons look like cat's to the llamas so they don't go after them. Llamas scream like a woman being murdered & leap up, twist, charge, stomp, spit & snort. Llamas are usually superior to herd guardian dog's & donkey's too. Love the pics! :)
 

Donna Albu

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Messages
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Peoria, Maricopa County, AZ
Amazing picture's! Rats will wear down a tort to exhaustion than start eating it alive. But in most cases you should see rodent droppings & know they are around. I've sadly seen cases with turtle's killed or so badly chewed they were euthanized. Some that had toes eaten away were able to be treated & survived. We plan to make a giant enclosure in the future. 16 feet long by 8 feet wide is what he has right now. We took him in from another rehabber & rescuer that trusted us to take him because she wanted him when she faced health issue's. So we had to make something fast. I'm hoping after we finish work on our house that we can add a sunroom or screened in room at the end of the house & the dinosaur will live in luxury. Lol.. Until then the rambling rose is growing on one side & we sprinkle petals & cut open rose hips to put in his habitat. A racoon chewed through fiberglass roofing panels we had over the chicken coop. We have all sizes of Havaheart live traps & safely relocated a trio of racoons. Because we have big ponds, thirsty wildlife seek us out. The guardian llamas keep out most predators but Opossom & racoons look like cat's to the llamas so they don't go after them. Llamas scream like a woman being murdered & leap up, twist, charge, stomp, spit & snort. Llamas are usually superior to herd guardian dog's & donkey's too. Love the pics! :)
Thanks!
 

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