Tortoise back leg problems-need help

i_like_turtles_

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my Sulcata is having trouble walking. His back legs seem to be weak. We are taking him in for X-rays but I wanted to see if anyone had the same issues and could offer some advise/ things to look for. He can still get around but the back of his shell pretty much drags on the ground. I also noticed that his shell from the lower half down is smaller than the top half near his head. Thinking this maybe means something is preventing his lower half from developing? I have attached a video of him walking and a photo. Any help is very much appreciated!

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link to video:www.metacafe.com/watch/11850649/tortoise2/
 

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ZEROPILOT

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Usually this is associated with longterm neglect and usually lack of U.V or proper nutrition.
Not something that happened overnight.
(Not saying that this must be the case)
Hopefully this is something a good reptile vet can correct.
Please update after your visit.
 

i_like_turtles_

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Usually this is associated with longterm neglect and usually lack of U.V or proper nutrition.
Not something that happened overnight.
(Not saying that this must be the case)
Hopefully this is something a good reptile vet can correct.
Please update after your visit.

We did find out recently that the diet he was being fed before we got him was not what he should have had. My boyfriends parents had him before we moved into our new house. He is 6, we started taking care of him in November of last year. His parents fed him mostly lettuce and some veggies. Since then we have started him on greens. Would this cause just the bottom half of his shell to stop developing?
 

Tom

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The shell shape is normal.

Does the tortoise live outside?

The diet for this species should consist of a lot of grass. What greens have you been feeding? Any grass or hay? Here is what you should be feeding:
https://tortoiseforum.org/threads/for-those-who-have-a-young-sulcata.76744/

How is the tortoise housed? Where does it sleep at night and what is the overnight low temp there?

How often do you soak the tortoise? Sometimes they will look weak in the rear when they are constipated or carrying a stone from being chronically dehydrated. An X-ray can confirm or deny this one.

Most vets don't know what they are doing with tortoises and tortoise care. Don't let them do any "vitamin injections". No calcium either. I'd be careful about letting them medicate either without some sort of diagnosis and correction of the cause of the problem.
 

i_like_turtles_

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The shell shape is normal.

Does the tortoise live outside?

The diet for this species should consist of a lot of grass. What greens have you been feeding? Any grass or hay? Here is what you should be feeding:
https://tortoiseforum.org/threads/for-those-who-have-a-young-sulcata.76744/

How is the tortoise housed? Where does it sleep at night and what is the overnight low temp there?

How often do you soak the tortoise? Sometimes they will look weak in the rear when they are constipated or carrying a stone from being chronically dehydrated. An X-ray can confirm or deny this one.

Most vets don't know what they are doing with tortoises and tortoise care. Don't let them do any "vitamin injections". No calcium either. I'd be careful about letting them medicate either without some sort of diagnosis and correction of the cause of the problem.


The shell shape is normal? He has been growing evenly his whole life, just recently has shaped like this.

He does live outside except during the winter, we keep him inside where he mostly sleeps/hibernates.

We have started feeding him turnip greens, collard greens, dandelion greens.

During the winter time nov-currently, we keep him inside. He mostly sleeps or hibernates during the winter he does sometimes wake up and walk around so we do let him outside but he always comes back in on his own when it’s night time and gets cold. During the summer he does sleep outside. We have a covered shelter for him, a covered porch and a small water pool.

We don’t soak him at all. This is just something we recently learned since we started caring for him. During the summer time my boyfriends parents would hose him down every day or so and they got a small kiddie pool for him to lay in, but never soaked him specially a number of times a week. How often should I be soaking him? This actually gives me some hope that this may be the issue. Seems to be more treatable than other options.
 

Tom

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The shell shape is normal? He has been growing evenly his whole life, just recently has shaped like this.

He does live outside except during the winter, we keep him inside where he mostly sleeps/hibernates.

We have started feeding him turnip greens, collard greens, dandelion greens.

During the winter time nov-currently, we keep him inside. He mostly sleeps or hibernates during the winter he does sometimes wake up and walk around so we do let him outside but he always comes back in on his own when it’s night time and gets cold. During the summer he does sleep outside. We have a covered shelter for him, a covered porch and a small water pool.

We don’t soak him at all. This is just something we recently learned since we started caring for him. During the summer time my boyfriends parents would hose him down every day or so and they got a small kiddie pool for him to lay in, but never soaked him specially a number of times a week. How often should I be soaking him? This actually gives me some hope that this may be the issue. Seems to be more treatable than other options.

Well we've discovered a couple of major problems here. This species does not hibernate. You are keeping it much too cold. Where they come from it is hot all the time year round. In the middle of their "winter" the coldest nights will be high 60s, and every day is at least in the 90s if not hotter. Living on a floor during a North American winter is much too cold. When its too cold, their systems cannot function properly. Their immune system and their digestive systems can shut down leading to catastrophic results. Some of them somehow survive this unnatural cold spell that some people allow them to suffer through, but many get sick and die, as you are seeing first hand.

Your tortoise looks large enough to live outside full time. You'll need to build a proper sealed, insulated, heated night box. This tortoise shouldn't be dropping below 80 degrees day or night. In the summer when days are all near 100, I set my night box thermostats to 70ish. In spring and fall with warm days and cooler nights, I set the thermostats around 80. In winter with cooler days and cold nights, I set my thermostats to 86, so they always have a place to warm up and function properly. Here are two examples of boxes and ways to heat them:
https://tortoiseforum.org/threads/another-night-box-thread.88966/
https://tortoiseforum.org/threads/my-best-night-box-design-yet.66867/

Next problem: Chronic dehydration. Some tortoises seem to drink enough on their own to stay well hydrated enough. Some don't, and they need to be soaked. Soaking will save the life of the latter, and it will do no harm to the former. You need a large tub of some sort with tall opaque sides. The bath tub can work, but tat will be exceedingly messy as the tortoise gets larger. I use horse watering troughs for big sulcatas. Your little one will need to be soaked daily for an hour to correct this problem for the next two or three weeks. The water must be kept warm for the entire duration of the soak. After two or three weeks of daily soaks and warm temperatures, if things improve and start working better, you can start skipping days and cutting the soaks back to two or three times a week.

Another problem I see is that you are feeding too much of the wrong foods and not enough of the right foods. Each of the three foods you mentioned are okay once in a while as part of a varied diet, but none of those should be a major portion of the diet. Grass, weeds, leaves and succulents need to be the majority of the diet. Check this out: https://tortoiseforum.org/threads/for-those-who-have-a-young-sulcata.76744/

Your tortoise is on the big side, but much of this info still applies:
https://tortoiseforum.org/threads/beginner-mistakes.45180/
https://tortoiseforum.org/threads/how-to-raise-a-healthy-sulcata-or-leopard-version-2-0.79895/

I hope that reading all of this will inspire some questions and conversation. Please come back and ask for more explanation on any of this that doesn't make sense or conflicts with what you've read or been told elsewhere. Happy to explain. :)
 

Yvonne G

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Another thing for the vet to check for is a large bladder stone pressing on the nerves and causing immobility.
 
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Tom

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Another thing for the vet to check for is a large bladder stone pressing on the nerves and causing immobility.
I agree with Yvonne. A large bladder stone due to the chronic dehydration, or constipation due to the cold temps and chronic dehydration are the most likely causes of this problem. An x-ray will confirm or deny.
 

i_like_turtles_

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Well we've discovered a couple of major problems here. This species does not hibernate. You are keeping it much too cold. Where they come from it is hot all the time year round. In the middle of their "winter" the coldest nights will be high 60s, and every day is at least in the 90s if not hotter. Living on a floor during a North American winter is much too cold. When its too cold, their systems cannot function properly. Their immune system and their digestive systems can shut down leading to catastrophic results. Some of them somehow survive this unnatural cold spell that some people allow them to suffer through, but many get sick and die, as you are seeing first hand.

Your tortoise looks large enough to live outside full time. You'll need to build a proper sealed, insulated, heated night box. This tortoise shouldn't be dropping below 80 degrees day or night. In the summer when days are all near 100, I set my night box thermostats to 70ish. In spring and fall with warm days and cooler nights, I set the thermostats around 80. In winter with cooler days and cold nights, I set my thermostats to 86, so they always have a place to warm up and function properly. Here are two examples of boxes and ways to heat them:
https://tortoiseforum.org/threads/another-night-box-thread.88966/
https://tortoiseforum.org/threads/my-best-night-box-design-yet.66867/

Next problem: Chronic dehydration. Some tortoises seem to drink enough on their own to stay well hydrated enough. Some don't, and they need to be soaked. Soaking will save the life of the latter, and it will do no harm to the former. You need a large tub of some sort with tall opaque sides. The bath tub can work, but tat will be exceedingly messy as the tortoise gets larger. I use horse watering troughs for big sulcatas. Your little one will need to be soaked daily for an hour to correct this problem for the next two or three weeks. The water must be kept warm for the entire duration of the soak. After two or three weeks of daily soaks and warm temperatures, if things improve and start working better, you can start skipping days and cutting the soaks back to two or three times a week.

Another problem I see is that you are feeding too much of the wrong foods and not enough of the right foods. Each of the three foods you mentioned are okay once in a while as part of a varied diet, but none of those should be a major portion of the diet. Grass, weeds, leaves and succulents need to be the majority of the diet. Check this out: https://tortoiseforum.org/threads/for-those-who-have-a-young-sulcata.76744/

Your tortoise is on the big side, but much of this info still applies:
https://tortoiseforum.org/threads/beginner-mistakes.45180/
https://tortoiseforum.org/threads/how-to-raise-a-healthy-sulcata-or-leopard-version-2-0.79895/

I hope that reading all of this will inspire some questions and conversation. Please come back and ask for more explanation on any of this that doesn't make sense or conflicts with what you've read or been told elsewhere. Happy to explain. :)

He does sleep alot, but he is awake most of the time as well. I was not aware they didn't hibernate, just thought he was an active hibernator. Well we keep him inside our house, our temperature inside our house is usually around the 70s since we run the heater inside our house during the winter. Is this still too cold for him? I definitely see what you mean with the heat boxes. Thank you so much for the information. I will correct this ASAP.

I will start soaking him and hopefully that will correct some of the issue. As far as a water bowl to leave out for them, do you have a recommended height for the bowl? I'm assuming a dog water bowl will be to high. Also, you mentioned earlier about stones and dehydration. Do you think it would be a good idea to take him in for xrays to make sure he does not have these as well?

I will correct his diet as well. I have done some research online, and found that the foods i am feeding him now were correct.. its so hard to find actual correct information online. I will definitely correct his diet according to the articles.

Thank you so much for the help, I really appreciate it. It breaks my heart that he has been cared for incorrectly for this long. The turtle was originally my bf sister, and she is a vet tech, so I guess my bf parents assumed she was caring for it the proper way, and continued how she was caring for him. I feel guilty that he was neglected, but I guess the only thing I can do is correct his care, and do my best to get him feeling better. I am at work right now, but I will read through the articles you gave, and if I have more questions will definitely ask, if you dont mind helping. lol
 

i_like_turtles_

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Another thing for the vet to check for is a large bladder stone pressing on the nerves and causing immobility.

Thank you for the suggestion, I will definitely have the vet check for this. Are bladder stones a result of dehydration?
 

Tom

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He does sleep alot, but he is awake most of the time as well. I was not aware they didn't hibernate, just thought he was an active hibernator. Well we keep him inside our house, our temperature inside our house is usually around the 70s since we run the heater inside our house during the winter. Is this still too cold for him? I definitely see what you mean with the heat boxes. Thank you so much for the information. I will correct this ASAP.

I will start soaking him and hopefully that will correct some of the issue. As far as a water bowl to leave out for them, do you have a recommended height for the bowl? I'm assuming a dog water bowl will be to high. Also, you mentioned earlier about stones and dehydration. Do you think it would be a good idea to take him in for xrays to make sure he does not have these as well?

I will correct his diet as well. I have done some research online, and found that the foods i am feeding him now were correct.. its so hard to find actual correct information online. I will definitely correct his diet according to the articles.

Thank you so much for the help, I really appreciate it. It breaks my heart that he has been cared for incorrectly for this long. The turtle was originally my bf sister, and she is a vet tech, so I guess my bf parents assumed she was caring for it the proper way, and continued how she was caring for him. I feel guilty that he was neglected, but I guess the only thing I can do is correct his care, and do my best to get him feeling better. I am at work right now, but I will read through the articles you gave, and if I have more questions will definitely ask, if you dont mind helping. lol

Yes. 70s is too cold, and its even colder down on the floor. Ambient needs to be in the 80s and they need a warmer area where they can get into the 90s. Sunshine works well for this with the larger ones, when possible, but we have to give them a warmer area when the sun isn't out, or when its too cold.

A 2-3" lip on the water bowl is fine, but it needs to be sunk into the ground. It doesn't work well if you put it on a flat surface above ground.

Yes. Take him in for an X-ray.

The foods you are feeding now are okay once in a while to add some variety. They aren't bad or toxic. They are just not good foods to food every day. If you must use grocery store foods, favor endive and escarole as your staples, and use the one you are currently using to offer some variety once a week or so. I prefer to avoid grocery store food entirely and use the things listed in that thread instead.
 

i_like_turtles_

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Yes. 70s is too cold, and its even colder down on the floor. Ambient needs to be in the 80s and they need a warmer area where they can get into the 90s. Sunshine works well for this with the larger ones, when possible, but we have to give them a warmer area when the sun isn't out, or when its too cold.

A 2-3" lip on the water bowl is fine, but it needs to be sunk into the ground. It doesn't work well if you put it on a flat surface above ground.

Yes. Take him in for an X-ray.

The foods you are feeding now are okay once in a while to add some variety. They aren't bad or toxic. They are just not good foods to food every day. If you must use grocery store foods, favor endive and escarole as your staples, and use the one you are currently using to offer some variety once a week or so. I prefer to avoid grocery store food entirely and use the things listed in that thread instead.

How high should I fill the water when soaking him? I read the thread saying a third of their body height? This seems high. Is that correct?
 

keepingslim

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my Sulcata is having trouble walking. His back legs seem to be weak. We are taking him in for X-rays but I wanted to see if anyone had the same issues and could offer some advise/ things to look for. He can still get around but the back of his shell pretty much drags on the ground. I also noticed that his shell from the lower half down is smaller than the top half near his head. Thinking this maybe means something is preventing his lower half from developing? I have attached a video of him walking and a photo. Any help is very much appreciated!

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link to video:www.metacafe.com/watch/11850649/tortoise2/
Hi, please note that this breed does NOT hibernate. Very important.
 

Yvonne G

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Another thing to note: You said he's in your house. Does he have a dedicated enclosure or are you allowing him to roam around on your floor. Walking on slippery floors is hard on a tortoise's hips, and quite often results in them not being able to use their back legs properly.
 
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