Very dark leopard hatchlings. ???

I’m wondering if anyone has hatched or has seen hatchlings hatch out THIS dark before. I had two extra dark babies hatch out of the same clutch recently. The first one was striking and has darkened some since it hatched. The second one was smaller and hatched from a dry egg. I peaked into the whole she managed to create and she was waddling around in the bottom of the egg and it was incredibly dry. Very strange. She was darker than the first dark baby of that clutch, and significantly smaller. She wasn’t as bright eyed and only lived about 24 hours unfortunately.
Here are some pictures of the first of the two dark babies. Hatched December 20th.







And here is the hatchling that hatched the following day on the 21st that only lived about a day.



And here are siblings and clutchmates:



Here are the parents:
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Not sure why the parent pictures are locked but here they are again.

I can't say that I've seen a baby leopard that dark. Not in person, not in TFO, not in a Google search.

I'll very curious to hear what others say.

Wow!

Team Gomberg said:

I can't say that I've seen a baby leopard that dark. Not in person, not in TFO, not in a Google search.

I'll very curious to hear what others say.

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I haven't either. I was quite struck when she first sent me photos of it. By far the darkest I've seen and I nerd out on tortoise photos almost all day every day lol

I'm interested to see what comes of this. The obvious initial thought is genetic mutation. Perhaps related to what makes some lighter or even albino, but with an opposite effect?

Melanistsic comes to mind. It’s even more interesting that there were two of these in the same clutch.

Elohi said:

Melanistsic comes to mind. It’s even more interesting that there were two of these in the same clutch.

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Back when I was in school I worked on a genetic study that would model and predict the color/pigmentation of various birds before they hatched based on dominant and recessive genes of their parents. I got to work with some brilliant professors and was amazed at how accurate our algorithm's predictions were on the eggs we hatched. Your case, however, seems more of an anomaly than a predictive outcome. Too bad the little one didn't make it, I'd love to have followed his story.

Ramsey said:

Back when I was in school I worked on a genetic study that would model and predict the color/pigmentation of various birds before they hatched based on dominant and recessive genes of their parents. I got to work with some brilliant professors and was amazed at how accurate our algorithm's predictions were on the eggs we hatched. Your case, however, seems more of an anomaly than a predictive outcome. Too bad the little one didn't make it, I'd love to have followed his story.

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Thankfully the larger of the two seems to be thriving. It is growing well and I’ll be sure and update it’s growth and progress.

Elohi said:

At least the larger of the two seems to be thriving. It is growing well and I’ll be sure and update it’s growth and progress.

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That's good to hear. It seems to be about the same size as the rest based on the first photo. Are these SA Leos or Babcocki?

Ramsey said:

That's good to hear. It seems to be about the same size as the rest based on the first photo. Are these SA Leos or Babcocki?

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Mixes I believe. Mia is 9 yrs old and Duke is 16 yrs old. Mia is 16-17” and 24 lbs. Duke is 11 lbs.
Both are still growing, and Mia has grown quite a bit since I got her a few years ago despite significant pyramiding and some sticky scutes.

Elohi said:

Mixes I believe. Mia is 9 yrs old and Duke is 16 yrs old. Mia is 16-17” and 24 lbs. Duke is 11 lbs.
Both are still growing, and Mia has grown quite a bit since I got her a few years ago despite significant pyramiding and some sticky scutes.
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Drop-dead gorgeous. I look forward to mine getting that size one day. Love Mia's coloring.

I never have either. Will be interesting to see what color changes it goes thru.
Your female looks very similar to mine which is a mix. Yours is a little bigger. Mine is around the 14 mark. My other female is a full bab an 11 inches and so are both bab males.
The size makes me think a mix.

Ramsey said:

Drop-dead gorgeous. I look forward to mine getting that size one day. Love Mia's coloring.

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Mia is quite fantastic. Her personality is very different than the majority of my babcocki and mixes. Her limbs are enormous compared to my other females of similar size (SLC). I think if her carapace condition were better, she would be significantly larger than she actually is.

diamondbp said:

and I nerd out on tortoise photos almost all day every day lol

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See, I find that interesting...hmmm

What about the other folks on here that have seen large numbers of torts?

@Yvonne G , have any of your or @Will 's leopards hatched out that dark? Or have there been any dark ones come through your rescue?

@Tom ? I know you just started producing the pp but I still wonder, have you seen a dark leopard hatchling?

What about with the sulcatas? If so, what did that mean? Maybe Monica can glean something from that.

Very fascinating. My first thought when I saw photo was melanistic. The markings and coloration looks very much like a melanistic leopard cub to me. It will be cool to see if it lightens or darkens as it grows. You may just have yourself a black panther tortoise .

I think it looked aberrant if you look on the turtle source they have some like that

Cooper horn said:

I think it looked aberrant if you look on the turtle source they have some like that

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They have leopard tortoises on there that are as dark as these ones?

Yea they are sold out but as dark

Cooper horn said:

I think it looked aberrant if you look on the turtle source they have some like that

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They have a variance in carapace pattern but their skin and coloration is otherwise normal.