Closed Chamber Ideas

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Hi everyone,

I just wanted some input from all of you about a new closed chamber enclosure I'm planning on building. I am planning on building it like the photos below, but with a solid wood wall on the front panel like the green one. I would hang the lights from the over hang in the top and create a door out of plexiglass on that angled part. I would love some ideas about lighting and heating. Some questions I have are: What are good dimensions for the enclosure? With size and closed chamber concept in mind, what are good wattage lights/heat? Please also add anything you think is important while building this or maintaining it. Thanks! (I did not take these photos, therefor I am not claiming ownership. I found them on google)
IMG_2495.jpg
IMG_2494.jpg
 

Ramsey

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Hi. I don't know where that design originated from, but I like it.

Few words from experience: go with as few windows as you can, just like you stated. I built one that was fully "windowed" and it doesn't retain heat very well. I hear the heater click all day. My complete wooden ones don't have this problem.

Next, don't use "plexiglass" acrylic. Just doesn't work well for our applications. There will be varying opinions on this, but it's expensive, doesn't hold heat well and has reactions to humidity like shape shifting.

Lastly, but sure you seal the wood with a safe wood sealer. Lots of advice on that in this forum. I've used plain Thompson's, I've used the countertop paint that @Markw84 recommended. I even used mold-resistant paint. All worked well for me.

Get a lamp with a dimmer and use incandescent flood lights for basking. You can dial in your temp accurately. Use a che for a heater.
 
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Hi. I don't know where that design originated from, but I like it.

Few words from experience: go with as few windows as you can, just like you stated. I built one that was fully "windowed" and it doesn't retain heat very well. I hear the heater click all day. My complete wooden ones don't have this problem.

Next, don't use "plexiglass" acrylic. Just doesn't work well for our applications. There will be varying opinions on this, but it's expensive, doesn't hold heat well and has reactions to humidity like shape shifting.

Lastly, but sure you seal the wood with a safe wood sealer. Lots of advice on that in this forum. I've used plain Thompson's, I've used the countertop paint that @Markw84 recommended. I even used mold-resistant paint. All worked well for me.

Get a lamp with a dimmer and use incandescent flood lights for basking. You can dial in your temp accurately. Use a che for a heater.

When I saw this I really thought I was neat! I wasn't planning on doing anything like the first except for the general shape. I was leaning more towards the green one because of exactly what you said. I am going to hang the lights from the over hang and only have one window that will seal well and probably won't be made of plexiglass. I've looked a little more into it and I'm looking for some better options. Currently, the plan is to have a mercury vapor bulb and CHE. The mercury vapor bulb will be used with a dimmer and the CHE will he used with a thermostat to maintain ambient temperature. I will definitely post pics of the process!
 

Ramsey

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When I saw this I really thought I was neat! I wasn't planning on doing anything like the first except for the general shape. I was leaning more towards the green one because of exactly what you said. I am going to hang the lights from the over hang and only have one window that will seal well and probably won't be made of plexiglass. I've looked a little more into it and I'm looking for some better options. Currently, the plan is to have a mercury vapor bulb and CHE. The mercury vapor bulb will be used with a dimmer and the CHE will he used with a thermostat to maintain ambient temperature. I will definitely post pics of the process!
Mixed opinions on MVB. They certainly work, and many claim stellar UVB output, but I could never get them to work for my applications. Also, won't work with a dimmer. They are self ballasted.

Don't get coils either. There is evidence that these can damage eyes.

If possible, try to insulate your box. Even for indoors.
 
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Mixed opinions on MVB. They certainly work, and many claim stellar UVB output, but I could never get them to work for my applications. Also, won't work with a dimmer. They are self ballasted.

Don't get coils either. There is evidence that these can damage eyes.

If possible, try to insulate your box. Even for indoors.
Okay thats good to know. So I guess my new plan then is to run a 5.0 fluorescent UVB tube across the top, with a 75 watt basking bulb (zoomed) hanging on one side, and a CHE on the other end. I am planning on making the back wall of the enclosure 24 inches, with both basking bulbs hanging down from there. Should I make it higher, and/or should I use a higher wattage basking bulb? Also, is there a way to use the UV light without a fixture? I would place it inside, so I don't really need the entire bulky fixture. Thanks!
 

Ramsey

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Okay thats good to know. So I guess my new plan then is to run a 5.0 fluorescent UVB tube across the top, with a 75 watt basking bulb (zoomed) hanging on one side, and a CHE on the other end. I am planning on making the back wall of the enclosure 24 inches, with both basking bulbs hanging down from there. Should I make it higher, and/or should I use a higher wattage basking bulb? Also, is there a way to use the UV light without a fixture? I would place it inside, so I don't really need the entire bulky fixture. Thanks!
What species are you going to house?

Use a 10.0 bulb instead. You can even order the 12.0 European. Don't bother with a "pet branded" basking light. Just get a 65W incandescent flood from HoDo.

Put the UVB lights at the recommended height from the manufacturer. Use a meter to check the output of available. You are going to want your UVB lights as centered as possible to cover as much area.

I use T5HO and put mine directly above the food dish. That's certainly the hip spot for my creep to be and this ensures they get the rays.

Funny little fact: the UV rays from these lights also give you the same rays that tan/age your skin. I don't tell the misses that, otherwise I'm sure she'd flip them off.
 
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What species are you going to house?

Use a 10.0 bulb instead. You can even order the 12.0 European. Don't bother with a "pet branded" basking light. Just get a 65W incandescent flood from HoDo.

Put the UVB lights at the recommended height from the manufacturer. Use a meter to check the output of available. You are going to want your UVB lights as centered as possible to cover as much area.

I use T5HO and put mine directly above the food dish. That's certainly the hip spot for my creep to be and this ensures they get the rays.

Funny little fact: the UV rays from these lights also give you the same rays that tan/age your skin. I don't tell the misses that, otherwise I'm sure she'd flip them off.
I am going to have a single, yearling leopard tortoise in the enclosure, so what do you think good dimensions would be? I will definitely buy the light from Home Depot... this is the one right? https://www.homedepot.com/p/Philips...descent-R20-Flood-Light-Bulb-433490/202229383

I will put the UV light as centered as possible, but do I really need a hood? It seems more costly than necessary and more difficult to suspend and deal with. I've seen people just use a UV light tube and there are two little metal round things at either end that I believe connect the circuit. Also, would you recommend buying a humidifier or just will just spraying it twice a day, keeping it closed, and keeping moss inside do the trick? Lastly, what thermostat do you recommend?
 

Ramsey

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I am going to have a single, yearling leopard tortoise in the enclosure, so what do you think good dimensions would be? I will definitely buy the light from Home Depot... this is the one right? https://www.homedepot.com/p/Philips...descent-R20-Flood-Light-Bulb-433490/202229383

I will put the UV light as centered as possible, but do I really need a hood? It seems more costly than necessary and more difficult to suspend and deal with. I've seen people just use a UV light tube and there are two little metal round things at either end that I believe connect the circuit. Also, would you recommend buying a humidifier or just will just spraying it twice a day, keeping it closed, and keeping moss inside do the trick? Lastly, what thermostat do you recommend?

I have to ask... Where are you getting the tort from?

I use these for basking: https://www.homedepot.com/p/Philips...door-Flood-Light-Bulb-3-Pack-429472/100476602

You don't "need" a hood. You can get away with just the ballasted strip lamp. I would do some research. I'm sure the reflectors in the hood help quite a bit, but I have no data to prove this. I used a plain strip lamp once, but didn't like it.

For humidity, I alternate every couple months from running a humidifier. I keep dampened substrate. Tom's guideline is perfect: keep it so an earthworm can live there. That usually is sufficient for humidity. We are in a dry spell, so run humidifier now.

Also, where do you live? Can you sun the Tortoise outdoors? Nothing beats old fashioned natural light.
 

Ramsey

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Your thermostat question is a tricky one for me to answer right now ;)

There are some great ones on the market, but I'm actually working on an building an advanced one that we are considering marketing....

I am using one from inkbird and it's fairly accurate sensor. One of mine even has a hygrostat included. Search Amazon and read reviews.
 
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Your thermostat question is a tricky one for me to answer right now ;)

There are some great ones on the market, but I'm actually working on an building an advanced one that we are considering marketing....

I am using one from inkbird and it's fairly accurate sensor. One of mine even has a hygrostat included. Search Amazon and read reviews.

I have had this leopard tortoise for a year now, but I am constructing a new closed chamber. I have never used one for any of my tortoises, I have always just covered the top of their enclosure and sprayed a lot but it doesn't seem to be working. I will definitely keep this thread updated with photos and what not. Thank you for your help!
 
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I have to ask... Where are you getting the tort from?

I use these for basking: https://www.homedepot.com/p/Philips...door-Flood-Light-Bulb-3-Pack-429472/100476602

You don't "need" a hood. You can get away with just the ballasted strip lamp. I would do some research. I'm sure the reflectors in the hood help quite a bit, but I have no data to prove this. I used a plain strip lamp once, but didn't like it.

For humidity, I alternate every couple months from running a humidifier. I keep dampened substrate. Tom's guideline is perfect: keep it so an earthworm can live there. That usually is sufficient for humidity. We are in a dry spell, so run humidifier now.

Also, where do you live? Can you sun the Tortoise outdoors? Nothing beats old fashioned natural light.

I live in Carpinteria, California. Currently we are evacuated because of the Thomas fire, but I get my tortoise outside almost daily for sunshine and grazing. That's why I don't think the UV light is extremely important in the sense that I need reflectors and what not. I think I'd be fine without the UV light but it's to have for a multitude of reasons.
 
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Hi. I don't know where that design originated from, but I like it.

Few words from experience: go with as few windows as you can, just like you stated. I built one that was fully "windowed" and it doesn't retain heat very well. I hear the heater click all day. My complete wooden ones don't have this problem.

Next, don't use "plexiglass" acrylic. Just doesn't work well for our applications. There will be varying opinions on this, but it's expensive, doesn't hold heat well and has reactions to humidity like shape shifting.

Lastly, but sure you seal the wood with a safe wood sealer. Lots of advice on that in this forum. I've used plain Thompson's, I've used the countertop paint that @Markw84 recommended. I even used mold-resistant paint. All worked well for me.

Get a lamp with a dimmer and use incandescent flood lights for basking. You can dial in your temp accurately. Use a che for a heater.

What would you use instead of plexiglass? I would prefer to have a clear viewing area.
 

Ramsey

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What would you use instead of plexiglass? I would prefer to have a clear viewing area.

I use 1/4" thick clear glass with seemed edges. I order it from a shop here locally. It's cheaper than acrylic/Plexi.

Then I use a guide designed for 1/4" thick material. End up with sliding show-case like windows, akin to what you'd find at a pet store.

I'm very pleased with its ability to retain heat.

In the future, I'd like to graduate to custom made double pane windows. However the temps in my area are so stable, I can't justify the cost.
 

Ramsey

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I use 1/4" thick clear glass with seemed edges. I order it from a shop here locally. It's cheaper than acrylic/Plexi.

Then I use a guide designed for 1/4" thick material. End up with sliding show-case like windows, akin to what you'd find at a pet store.

I'm very pleased with its ability to retain heat.

In the future, I'd like to graduate to custom made double pane windows. However the temps in my area are so stable, I can't justify the cost.

Oh ya, If you really want to go on the cheap, you can buy the glass from HoDo instead and then just cut it yourself... But it won't save much and I don't think they carry 1/4". But why bother. Spend a bit more and have a shop cut it properly.

Also, if you don't want it to be a sliding door, but instead stationary, you can silicone it in place or use wall mount mirror clips.

Search for @Markw84 post on his latest stackables. Those doors are a great alternative if you don't want to use the guides.
 
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Oh ya, If you really want to go on the cheap, you can buy the glass from HoDo instead and then just cut it yourself... But it won't save much and I don't think they carry 1/4". But why bother. Spend a bit more and have a shop cut it properly.

Also, if you don't want it to be a sliding door, but instead stationary, you can silicone it in place or use wall mount mirror clips.

Search for @Markw84 post on his latest stackables. Those doors are a great alternative if you don't want to use the guides.

I'm not entirely sure what you mean. I was planning on having it on hinges to that the door opens up if that makes sense. So how would I go about that? Also, because it will sit on the wood frame, should I put a little rubber tube around all of the wood to create a tight seal and cushion? Also, would you recommend using something like a shower curtain or plastic sheet cut and sealed onto the wood on the inside to waterproof or paint it? I would prefer to have this done by Christmas as the latest which I can do because I can work on it everyday... but painting it would delay. Also, if I used just a plastic shower curtain type of thing, I wouldn't need to silicone the entire thing. I feel like it makes it much easier, but you obviously know better.
 

Ramsey

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I'm not entirely sure what you mean. I was planning on having it on hinges to that the door opens up if that makes sense. So how would I go about that? Also, because it will sit on the wood frame, should I put a little rubber tube around all of the wood to create a tight seal and cushion? Also, would you recommend using something like a shower curtain or plastic sheet cut and sealed onto the wood on the inside to waterproof or paint it? I would prefer to have this done by Christmas as the latest which I can do because I can work on it everyday... but painting it would delay. Also, if I used just a plastic shower curtain type of thing, I wouldn't need to silicone the entire thing. I feel like it makes it much easier, but you obviously know better.

How big are you wanting to make this thing? Get some dimensions going.

So it sounds like you want to do swinging door(s). Then you definitely want to visit Mark's post to see how he did the doors. You effectively create a frame from wood and attach the hinges to that. Then you secure the glass to the frame. Pay attention to the bit where he mentions baking in cushion for the wood to swell... It will swell.

This changes my recommendations slightly. Depending on the size of the door, it will get really heavy and dangerous if it's slammed shut etc. So you may want to consider 3/16" or even 1/8" glass.

If you're deadset on that design, and it's the window on top that's swinging, invest a bit in hinges/arms that will control the speed. Think of a trunk lid. I used them in my outdoor tortoise run and it made all the difference.
 

Ramsey

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Forgot to answer your liner question. I'd like others to chime in here with success stories.

What I've resorted to doing is sealing/painting entire inside... Even the floor, regardless of liner.

Then I've used shower liners with decent success. One of my torts finds it and rips it with ease. Others don't bother it. I saw one thread where a fella actually installed bathroom tiles in the enclosure. That's epic in my opinion. There's another liner I'm thinking about using, moisture sheeting. Forgot the name.

I recall @Tom mentioning some pond seal, like an epoxy if you want that route. Lastly, you can use pond liner. That should be safe since those koi fish seem to survive.
 
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How big are you wanting to make this thing? Get some dimensions going.

So it sounds like you want to do swinging door(s). Then you definitely want to visit Mark's post to see how he did the doors. You effectively create a frame from wood and attach the hinges to that. Then you secure the glass to the frame. Pay attention to the bit where he mentions baking in cushion for the wood to swell... It will swell.

This changes my recommendations slightly. Depending on the size of the door, it will get really heavy and dangerous if it's slammed shut etc. So you may want to consider 3/16" or even 1/8" glass.

If you're deadset on that design, and it's the window on top that's swinging, invest a bit in hinges/arms that will control the speed. Think of a trunk lid. I used them in my outdoor tortoise run and it made all the difference.
I am thinking roughly 2x4 right now. I am currently evacuated because of the fire but I will probably head home tomorrow or the following day (that is why I have so much time to think and plan lol). I believe the space I am planning on using will fit 2x4 really well. Come to think of it, my dude will rip straight through that liner, so I think I will use bathroom tiles. They are cheap, water proof, and will look pretty cool in my opinion. I just saw on the Home Depot website that they are about a dollar a foot which is nice. I have seen Mark's post and am definitely going to do that.

I also think that I will use the 1/8 inch glass just because I will make a sturdy wooden frame and I don't need the glass to be super thick. The other think I could do though if I were to have the window area wide enough (four feet is pretty wide lol) is to have two panes of glass and do you what you do with the sliding glass. Which do you think is better, the sliding panes or the opening frame considering cleaning, feeding, misting, etc.?
 
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How big are you wanting to make this thing? Get some dimensions going.

So it sounds like you want to do swinging door(s). Then you definitely want to visit Mark's post to see how he did the doors. You effectively create a frame from wood and attach the hinges to that. Then you secure the glass to the frame. Pay attention to the bit where he mentions baking in cushion for the wood to swell... It will swell.

This changes my recommendations slightly. Depending on the size of the door, it will get really heavy and dangerous if it's slammed shut etc. So you may want to consider 3/16" or even 1/8" glass.

If you're deadset on that design, and it's the window on top that's swinging, invest a bit in hinges/arms that will control the speed. Think of a trunk lid. I used them in my outdoor tortoise run and it made all the difference.
Also, if I wanted to be insanely cheap, could I do this: I have an empty 20 gallon aquarium at home that I probably won't use again. Could I cut the panels apart and use the two long panels (24"x12" each) as my glass sheets? I know it sounds crazy, but I am willing to put the work in if it means not spending excessive amounts of money if not needed. As long as it functions and works well, its fine. Also, with a small frame, they would work perfectly for sliding doors!
 
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Tom

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I am thinking roughly 2x4 right now...

You've gotten great tips from Ramsey. I wanted to chime in with a few thoughts too.
  • In my opinion, a 2x4 will be a big waste of time. You'll be building another one in 6 months. If you go 4x8, it will last until your tortoise is large enough to live outside full time.
  • I've had no luck using plastic liners. They don't last under tortoise feet. I recently used Pond Shield for the first time and love it. I also want to try the counter top paint Mark recommends.
  • If you are going to spend the money on indoor UV, use a hood. It greatly increases the effectiveness of the bulb you buy.
  • 5.0 bulbs are a waste of money and produce hardly any measurable UV. Regular 10.0 bulbs work, but must be mounted 10-12 inches away for the tortoise to get a little bit of UV. The newer T-5 HO bulbs are the way to go. I prefer the Arcadia brand, but the ZooMed ones work too.
  • I you decide to skip the UV bulbs because your climate allows you to use natural sunlight all year, you should put in a HO florescent tube in the 5000-6500K color range, with a reflector hood, to brighten up the enclosure during the day.
  • You should not need a humidifier in a closed chamber. If things are drying out in there, it means you have too much ventilation and all your warm humid air is escaping.
  • I no longer think MVBs are the way to go. They run too hot for a closed chamber, they frequently burn out prematurely, the cause tremendous desiccation to the tortoise's carapace, and one of our vet members here says that he was checking them with a UV meter and they were only making UV for about 3 months, even though the bulb still lit up and appeared to be working. I suspect some of the European remote ballasted, lower wattage ones might still be useful, but I haven't tried them myself to verify this.
  • Sliding doors are a pain in the rear! I intend to use hinged doors on future builds.
Hope these things help! :)
 

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