strange day with unwanted outcome

ColleenT · May 10, 2016

I was hoping that you would know you are responsible for this and WANT to pay the bill. I think any good person would take responsibilty for something they knew they did wrong. I realize you have that policy but there are exceptions and i do believe this is an occasion where it is the exception and not the rule. Had you wanted to make this right, i never would have mentioned the name of the company. but now i feel i need to warn others of what could happen.

I am not trying to get this thread shut down, so i won't try to argue my point anymore. it seems to be going unheard.

Yvonne G · May 10, 2016

Andrew said it IS a three-toed. I still see gulf coast, though.

ColleenT · May 10, 2016

Yvonne G said:
Andrew said it IS a three-toed. I still see gulf coast, though.

Even my vet told me it is a gulf coast. He can argue all he wants, but he is supposed to be the expert.

dmmj · May 10, 2016

it is not a three-toed turtle why the insistence that it is?

Az tortoise compound · May 10, 2016

No profits were made, a loss was acquired on our end as well. We refunded her in full for the purchase.
Soaking the box turtle before shipping did not show the hind limbs to see claws. Mute point if missing a leg.
The group of three toes were acquired from Mississippi, in Mississippi, gulf coast and three toes over lap in range. It could have been possible a gulf coast was sent as apart of that shipment. A offer of good will was suggested by saying once I have adult three toed female available again I would send her one.

JoesMum · May 10, 2016

Az tortoise compound said:
No profits were made, a loss was acquired on our end as well. We refunded her in full for the purchase.

Pleased to hear that at least.

ColleenT · May 10, 2016

yes i was refunded for the cost of the animal and the shipping costs.

mark1 · May 10, 2016

if your policy was to take responsibility for errors that were unarguably yours it would cause you to make as few as possible and lead to better care of the animals ... you'd be more careful what you sent and how you sent it ....... our company doesn't get paid for 2-3 months after the customer gets the product , we've been back charged for mistakes ..... way overcharged in comparison to what we could've fixed it for ..... but we been in business for a long time and have a good reputation ..... we take the hit and try like hell not to let it happen , if it happens too much , i'm unemployed ......... your cost for the health care of a turtle you got for a couple bucks and is not salable as is , i'd guess it'd be lucky to get a little brutacaine , i mean how much could it hurt ? a pair of sidecutters , betadine , and maybe a shot of baytril if it was within budget .......a sign of the cross and good luck ..... 3 legs has to seriously devalue her ..... there is nothing remotely resembling asking for kindness in expecting you to pay for such complete lack of care ....... you got to know your sending a bunch of these animals to folks as pets ...... life certainly does make you cynical of people ...at least it does me ...

lisa127 · May 10, 2016

Looks like it could be a gulf coast/three toed integrade.

dmmj · May 10, 2016

my personal opinion only I have several problems with his response first who gets a large shipment of adult 3-toes that aren't wild caught? you seem to use your "terms and conditions" as some sort of Shield against everything. there are always exceptions to every rule as any business owner should know. the fact that you wanted her to ship the turtle back in pain for another 24 hours leaves me to believe your a callous person. plus you seem to have a lot of excuses. Once again only my personal opinion I will never do business with you and I'm sure lots of others feel the same way. You saved $500 on the vet bill but you probably lost a lot more business in the future never a good decision

bouaboua · May 10, 2016

WOW! it is shocking to read all this, also a shock to read the respond from Andrew.

Eric Phillips · May 10, 2016

dmmj said:
my personal opinion only I have several problems with his response first who gets a large shipment of adult 3-toes that aren't wild caught? you seem to use your "terms and conditions" as some sort of Shield against everything. there are always exceptions to every rule as any business owner should know. the fact that you wanted her to ship the turtle back in pain for another 24 hours leaves me to believe your a callous person. plus you seem to have a lot of excuses. Once again only my personal opinion I will never do business with you and I'm sure lots of others feel the same way. You saved $500 on the vet bill but you probably lost a lot more business in the future never a good decision

Well stated! Like I said in an earlier post Andrew, the stage was set to truly make this right and quite frankly your response on the review fell way short! If I just paid a $500 vet bill for an obvious mistake on your end, and after reading your excuses you offer to sell me another 3 toed(questionable) at cost, I would tell you where to stick it! There should of been NO excuses and explaining, just an acknowledgment of the error, an offer to help with vet bill, and a guarantee Colleen gets to have first pick of the next shipment of 3 toeds for free. Your audience would be praising your efforts and wouldn't probably think twice about doing business with you. Well, you didn't, and you now look like a complete fool in the end. I hope you learn from this experience.

Pearly · May 11, 2016

Az tortoise compound said:
Hey everyone, this is Andrew owner at Arizona Tortoise Compound. TFO is an awesome site that I like having ATC be apart of, so I would like to share as well on this thread. I do understand everyone's comments and opinions that everyone has expressed on this thread. I do appreciate the understanding posts and I do understand myself about the negative posts.

Colleen was very polite through the whole process and is a wonderful person for taking on the Three Toed with the wound instead of euthanizing it. I do understand her being upset for spending money on the vet and she has the right to post a bad guy thread on A.T.C. as she did. As for the Tortoise Industry, companies are not able to offer to pay vet bills. Vet bills can fluctuate greatly from one vet to another. Also many vets do not know the underlining reasons for some causes, so testing, treating, then getting blood work done, then treating again can make the costs go sky high. Also if companies offered to pay vet bills, a few people would take there tortoises in for minimal reasons and accrue large tabs and try to pass on to the company or breeder. Also you will get people making fake vet bills to scam as well. For these reasons industry standards are for the tortoise or turtle to be shipped back and let the company handle the health issues. A lot of times, give an inch and a mile is taken. If I was to change A.T.C.'s policies and cover vet bills on this one, their would be people trying to use my kindness for free health examinations and all sorts of other things. So, as a person that does enjoy and care for my animals and as much as my heart goes out to the box turtle and customer, A.T.C. is not able to pay the vet expense for anyone.

I do not like making up excuses but I would like to list a few examples. A.T.C. was closed for a few weeks. I had to move my family as well as my company to new locations. One can imagine how hard it is to move a family, business and 40 different species of tortoises from one location to another plus turtle species and other reptiles. I provide large enclosures for my species and have acreage. Yes, for time to time a turtle or tortoise is able to elude us and that is how the box turtle went unseen for awhile. This is also the reason for lack of communication. I do believe if our internet was not down I could have let colleen know of the non payment of the vet before she started the process. Soaking the turtle before shipping and looking it over did not show any signs of Injury. I would never let A.T.C. ship dead/ injured animals on purpose. Things do happen from time to time. I am not perfect nor is A.T.C., nor is anyone. I do also understand with listing these reasons some people will have different opinions then I and that is fine too.

When I started A.T.C. over ten years ago, we set new standards and guarantees, it also got some others on board to change there policies. The example being the health guarantee. Most companies offer live arrival and that it. We started with a 3 day guarantee and over time increased it to a 7 day satisfaction guarantee. We now are at the point to where we are going back to live arrival only. In the beginning we also refunded and tried to cover most anything, but with time any many of many people trying to take advantage we are no longer able to offer the guarantee. Once a person flipped over a bunch of tortoises they received from us and started to take photos. They claimed they all were dead. In the sequence of photos you could see the hatchlings blinking. One photos some had eyes open then the next photos they were closed and next open again. We called them out on it and told them to never contact us again. With the 7 day satisfaction we wanted to set ourselves apart from others, but with time we have learned why others only offered live arrival and put a time line on receiving. A,T.C. is still growing and we did ---- sales last year (not profit). Most of that being live tortoises. We are shipping 5 day a week, every week. That equals many tortoises being sold. We do see almost anything you can image throughout the year. Once you say you have seen it all, then somehow something new pops up that you would never think of. Breeder tortoises is my passion and brings me joy everyday and I will continue with my high expectations of myself and business.

As for the Fauna BOI post you guys are referring to. That was my first ever bad guy post and that happened three to four years ago, I think four. If your able to read through the 100 plus pages of comments and weed through the negative jabs from my competitors, one would see I stood my ground on that case. I still feel I was in the right on that one and would do it again the same if happens again. As much as companies have responsibilities the customers have responsibilities too. I personally do not comment on BOI posts on Fauna, but I do not mind posting on TFO. I will continue to share my breeding experiences here as well as share my knowledge with others. This is why I'm okay with sharing this post, so people can understand where companies stand and what to do if something arises.Every shipment we ship, a slip of paper is included directing the customer to give their reviews on TFO and we will continue to add that slip on every shipment. Anyone that has questions or concerns are welcome to email me directly at [email protected] . Thank you, Andrew Hermes

With all due respect, in referrence to vet bill: the example you give is hardly adequate in this case. "Most vets not knowing what they are dealing with...." And "all the blood work...." etc doesn't really apply here. To me, being presented with an animal with one of it's legs detached and dried up.... would be pretty clear cut. There's really nothing confusing or "iffy" about the diagnosis and treatment plan and implementation. 1st AIDE principals apply to all living things, humans and animals. I'm surprised the vet bill was ONLY 500$ considering emergent surgery, anesthesia, pain management, standard pre and post op labs, antibiotics.... surgical supplies and wound care. This vet must have known what he/she was doing. This bill could have easily been couple K... But that's neither here nor there. Let's take things appart and look at it "strictly business transaction", your client received : #1) WRONG PRODUCT (she had ordered a Threetoed) and #2) the "product" was defective upon arrival from you. Since we are dealing with living creatures, different code of ethics apply. Now, lets suppose the "product" was in perfect condition but just the wrong kind... Then, yes, she could have send the animal back for a refund but dealing with live animals, in my view the code of ethics needs to be modiffied in order to reflect the nature of "the product". We do have laws in this country that protect animals from cruelty afterall. So.... Colleen did exactly what most of us would have done, she was compelled to render "1st aide" to a living creature who was suffering horrible injury. In my view you Sir, are within your rights to hold your ground and refuse reimbursing Colleen for the vet bill that was a result of your sending her badly injured animal. That is your prerogative and totally up to your own business practice standards. I do however feel that this incident will chip away from your reputation in the community. And that's a darn shame because your company seems to have been enjoying stellar client reviews. To you, Sir, selling this "product" was one of hundreds transactions that have been your daily routine for a decade. To Colleen, this was once in a lifetime, one of most traumatic events that will take her a long time to recover from. I am not talking here about the 500 bucks, but rather the mental/emotional trauma and shock she must have gone through. I think most of us would have easily been able to get passes you sending a "wrong product" (again, let's not forget, she paid for the 3-toed!". You could have easily corrected your mistake and everyone would still have been happy. What bothers me the most about the way you handle this is lack of simple, transparent act of admission: "yes, we have made a big mistake! how can we make this right now?" That's all! Really. Someone of your tenure and reputation in the business would have been quickly forgiven and things would have quickly go back to normal. I get all the stress of you moving and stuff... But... your clients don't really need to know all that, nor do most of them care as long as they get from you what they pay for. Simple lesson from this: 1) mistakes happen, 2) we all make them 3) and it's all good as long as we own them and make ammends. You are probably a young man and still having few vital life's lessons to learn. Don't let one time "stumble and fall" ruin what you have earned over past decade. Wishing you best of luck and Touch of the Infinite Wisdom. Take care.

surfergirl · May 11, 2016

Colleen can you pm me on the go fund address. I would be happy to help. again, i hope you keep this gulf coast gal, sorry i called her a 3 toe in the other post. So glad she is eating and recovering from her injury! she will get through the paper lined life very soon and hope she will be happily digging in some fine PA dirt very soon.

bouaboua · May 11, 2016

I will more than happy to do the same. Please PM me the go fund address also. Thanks.

strange day with unwanted outcome

ColleenT

Well-Known Member

Yvonne G

Old Timer

ColleenT

Well-Known Member

dmmj

The member formerly known as captain awesome

Az tortoise compound

Active Member

JoesMum

Well-Known Member

ColleenT

Well-Known Member

mark1

Well-Known Member

lisa127

Well-Known Member

dmmj

The member formerly known as captain awesome

bouaboua

Well-Known Member

Eric Phillips

Well-Known Member

Pearly

Well-Known Member

surfergirl

Well-Known Member

bouaboua

Well-Known Member

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