babyhermanns
New Member
why do some people say that it is bad to keep young tortoises outside?
Because they don't do as well and it makes them grow slower and pyramid more.why do some people say that it is bad to keep young tortoises outside?
if they grow slower, does it harm them in any way? is it okay if they grow slower?Because they don't do as well and it makes them grow slower and pyramid more.
They will grow 2-3 times faster on the same amount of the same foods with the only variable being inside all day vs. outside all day.
if they grow slower, does it harm them in any way? is it okay if they grow slower?
thank you!I think the growth rate itself isn't the problem so much as the stress it's indicative/reflective or: predators, overheating, underheating, dehydration, etc.
@Relic said it wonderfully above.
Jamie
Think in terms of: Slower growth equals more time in a smaller "package" that is more vulnerable to all the issues listed above. The sooner they attain adult size, the sooner they gain a bit of immunity/resistance to all those potentially bad things...if they grow slower, does it harm them in any way? is it okay if they grow slower?
The pyramiding and slower growth are an indication that things aren't so great for them. Think about it for a minute. Hydration, temps, calories taken in, exercise, etc... All other variables are the same, but one group is outside most of each day and one group is inside most of each day. We are talking two groups of six randomly selected clutch mates that all hatched at the same time. The indoor ones grow 3 times faster. 300%.if they grow slower, does it harm them in any way? is it okay if they grow slower?
First you are talking about an adult. Adults should live outside in most cases, when weather permits. No so with hatchlings and babies, which is what this thread is about.Her shell is not perfectly smooth, but that is rare in captive breds and I would not call her pyramided. She is healthy as a horse at age 22.
Its not rare anymore. For people who raise them correctly, a smooth shell has become the norm. I would not expect to see many 22 year old smooth tortoises.Her shell is not perfectly smooth, but that is rare in captive breds and I would not call her pyramided.
As I think was clear from my post, I was talking about what I did when Beasley was a baby. I got her in Oct but from the next Spring she was out as much as possible from April-Oct in a very secure enclosure.First you are talking about an adult. Adults should live outside in most cases, when weather permits. No so with hatchlings and babies, which is what this thread is about.
To much protein will cause pyarmiding. Such as Spinach, Kale.The pyramiding and slower growth are an indication that things aren't so great for them. Think about it for a minute. Hydration, temps, calories taken in, exercise, etc... All other variables are the same, but one group is outside most of each day and one group is inside most of each day. We are talking two groups of six randomly selected clutch mates that all hatched at the same time. The indoor ones grow 3 times faster. 300%.
Does it harm them? That's tough to answer. In theory it shouldn't, but the evidence is very clear here that outside too much just isn't good for them.
This is not correct. Not at all. We've disproven this many times over many years. That is old, often repeated, incorrect info.To much protein will cause pyarmiding. Such as Spinach, Kale.
Tom don’t you recommend they stay inside the first three years? Is it three years or a certain size?Because they don't do as well and it makes them grow slower and pyramid more.
They will grow 2-3 times faster on the same amount of the same foods with the only variable being inside all day vs. outside all day.
Not at all. I take hatchlings outside in the sun on day one. The important detail is: How MUCH time outside for babies. My general rule is an hour of sun per inch of baby tortoise per day. Then always a soak when they come back in. By two or three years, most any species should be able to live outside full time with the right enclosure and depending on climate and season. I usually get sulcatas outside full time at 12-18 months. The mistake the I see people making is putting babies outside all day. They have been told this is "good" or "better" and that real sun is more "natural" for them. Side-by-side experiments have proven otherwise. Clutchmates with the same amount of the same food, same soaking routine, same temps, same indoor sleeping enclosures for night time, grow three times faster and with no pyramiding when kept mostly indoors following these guidelines, when compared to their siblings housed mostly outdoors all day every day in excellent, well planted, heavily irrigated enclosures.Tom don’t you recommend they stay inside the first three years? Is it three years or a certain size?