No, not babies. They need a humid closed chamber for the first few years.You don't put your tortoises outside in the summer?
No, not babies. They need a humid closed chamber for the first few years.You don't put your tortoises outside in the summer?
You have a couple of years before any baby could be kept outsideSo I’ve already read Tom’s care sheet and I still have about a billion questions. I luckily have a month to do research and prepare as this was a special birthday request for my oldest. I’ve got all the enclosure stuff down except type of hydrometer and night heating element to use for the indoor hatchling enclosure? Also what are their personalities/activities like during the day? Are the diggers or climbers? Will 1/4in plywood suffice for the temporary winter enclosure? Curious to know more specifics on how fast they grow. How much is too much to feed them, as I know with our old Russian it was feed them as much as they want but I’ve seen that over feeding is common in hatchlings. Can I get any recommendations on breeders or places to buy from? I’m in Fort Worth Texas if anyone knows someone local.
For reference we will be wanting a young baby or hatchling by November. We will winter it indoors while my husband builds a fancy enclosure outdoors. But we just bought this house in May and the yard was completely neglected before we moved in, so we are completely tearing up and redoing all of it. So we need to know just how fast these big guys grow so we can get a corner of the yard ready for it while we finish up the rest of the yard and then build it an even bigger enclosure.
Adults live outside year round.You don't put your tortoises outside in the summer?
Oh no I just meant we are making an indoor enclosure for winters and an outdoor for summers. It gets pretty cold here in winter and sunning just may not be possible. Just needed to know how big they get in certain amount of time so I knew how long we have to get the really big outdoor enclosure built. Financially we can’t do what we plan with the outdoor one yet. We already have all the supplies except night heat, hydrometer and substrate for the indoor enclosure. Just bought some insulation and plexiglass for it yesterday.There is no summer or winter enclosure for babies. I'm not understanding what you think the difference is. There is just their large closed chamber that is indoors and temperature regulated. Its the same enclosure year round. Once thermostats and timers are set, you don't have to do much from season to season. Sometimes change a basking bulb to a little higher wattage for winter, but that should be about it.
I'd get two of the 24 quart bags of Reptibark, or one 2.0 cu. ft. bag of fir bark if you can find fine grade at a local nursery.
I’ve been searching like crazy and finally found a local lumber yard that carries fir bark. Going to check it out this week. If that isn’t what I’m looking for I’ve found small bags of orchid bark at Lowe’s and a farm feed store. Or cypress mulch just about everywhere.Check the local garden centers they may carry the fine fir bark in bulk bags like mulch . Other wise maybe like 8 bags. I use cypress mulch first about 4” thick with Reptibark (fine fir bark from pet stores) over top. Same performance and look but a lot cheaper
Not our first tortoise. Just not done a sully before and wanted to get it set up right BEFORE we get it! We are wanting a hatchling mostly due to the indoor space we have for an enclosure. I can only do a 2x4 indoors this year. But I’m also a Vet Tech student and my passion is reptiles.I don't have much experience but...I have noticed that as they grow, the weight, 5 years 40 to 50 lbs. 6 years, 50 to 60 lbs. That's loosely, just to give you an idea. Why get a hatchling? Those are fragile, hard to keep, and die easily. Adopt a bigger Sulcata, the rescues are full of them. And if you've never kept a tortoise before, get a Russian first. Not Sulcata
Good luck to ya. Stay and show us pictures when you get one. Buy a Sudan Sulcata from Tom....Not our first tortoise. Just not done a sully before and wanted to get it set up right BEFORE we get it! We are wanting a hatchling mostly due to the indoor space we have for an enclosure. I can only do a 2x4 indoors this year. But I’m also a Vet Tech student and my passion is reptiles.
I wanted to, but I saw all his sold already ? if it wasn’t a present I would totally wait til his next clutchGood luck to ya. Stay and show us pictures when you get one. Buy a Sudan Sulcata from Tom....
OK. I don't see why you wouldn't provide more outside time if you could. My redfoot had an outdoor pen from her first spring with me. It was covered and protected, and she got out almost every day for 6 or more hours. Unless you live in an area that's really not conducive to tortoises that isn't hard to do. Humidity runs 80-90% in my areas in the summer. I assumed that was what the poster was saying.Adults live outside year round.
Babies have outside enclosures that I use two or three times a week when they are small. About an hour of sun per inch of tortoise is my usual guideline. But its not a summer enclosure or winter enclosure. I use both year round.
Yeah Tom, how come???OK. I don't see why you wouldn't provide more outside time if you could. My redfoot had an outdoor pen from her first spring with me. It was covered and protected, and she got out almost every day for 6 or more hours. Unless you live in an area that's really not conducive to tortoises that isn't hard to do. Humidity runs 80-90% in my areas in the summer. I assumed that was what the poster was saying.
That’s probably just for his specific climate since he is in the desertYeah Tom, how come???
Because too much time outside is bad for babies. I've done many side by side comparisons because the often repeated wisdom is "outside is better for tortoises..." It isn't. Not for babies. Babies kept mostly outside grow at half to one third the rate of their clutch mates kept mostly indoors on the same amount of the same food, with the same soaking routine and in similarly sized enclosures with similar conditions. Babies outside also pyramid more then their primarily indoor clutchmates. Something about the stability and consistency of the great indoors is more conducive to having a thriving baby.OK. I don't see why you wouldn't provide more outside time if you could. My redfoot had an outdoor pen from her first spring with me. It was covered and protected, and she got out almost every day for 6 or more hours. Unless you live in an area that's really not conducive to tortoises that isn't hard to do. Humidity runs 80-90% in my areas in the summer. I assumed that was what the poster was saying.
Maggie already knows what the answer is. She just wanted to hear me say it.That’s probably just for his specific climate since he is in the desert
I'm sorry Violanna, I do know how Tom raises tortoises. There was no way for you to know that Tom is one of our most experienced members. He breeds tortoises at a commercial level. He definitely is a know it all. And your statement about him cracked me up. So I'll slink back to my corner now....Maggie already knows what the answer is. She just wanted to hear me say it.
Love this!! So well said! I’ve been reading your posts and such on enclosures and raising tortoises for 2 years now haha. I’m definitely a ‘do your homework first’ type! Especially as a Veterinary student! Drives my husband crazy how insane I get about the science of animal husbandry!Because too much time outside is bad for babies. I've done many side by side comparisons because the often repeated wisdom is "outside is better for tortoises..." It isn't. Not for babies. Babies kept mostly outside grow at half to one third the rate of their clutch mates kept mostly indoors on the same amount of the same food, with the same soaking routine and in similarly sized enclosures with similar conditions. Babies outside also pyramid more then their primarily indoor clutchmates. Something about the stability and consistency of the great indoors is more conducive to having a thriving baby.
Outdoors may be better for adults in some ways. Its certainly easier to have adult in appropriately large enclosure outdoors, and that is how I house all of mine. I suspect if we did side-by-side comparisons of adults kept in properly set up, large indoor enclosures, they might also do "better" than their outdoor counterparts that are at the mercy of the cruel whims of Mother Nature. That would be much more difficult to assess or measure. We'd first have to define "better".
My weather here is great for babies. In years past I raised many tortoise babies mostly outdoors. We have 80+ degree days in January and February sometimes. Those babies are grew very slowly and had much pyramiding.
Even here on this forum, several members, including some from humid climates, reported markedly better results after moving their babies indoors to a large closed chamber, instead of the outdoor enclosures they were using. Your average tortoise keeper will never see this. You'd have to raise dozens of babies simultaneously in a variety of housing circumstances to see this. I've done that many times. Most people have one tortoise, and if its still alive, they feel they did it "right" and their way is to be recommended. They don't know what the results from doing it other ways would have been.
What a freakin love story between man and beast! I am so glad you took the time to put it out there. How do we get so involved in doing stuff for a darned tortoise? That really is a great story.I never had a tortoise before I got mine and then it was a sulcata. I did every thing wrong the first 2 months I had him. It was then that I found this forum and changed EVERYTHING. My husband and I immediately made a 2X4ft. SEALED enclosure. I put a window with a caulking in the front so he could look out and we could look in. It had a top on it, it was SEALED!!! I put it up on a table in my living room. I misted him 2-3 times a day, soaked him daily. A couple times a week in the winter, when the weather was nice we would go outside TOGETHER. I never let him stay outside by himself, he was so very little. Bad things happen to them and actually they move pretty fast and before you know it they have blended in and you can lose him. No kidding. I turned my back once while reading my book and I couldn't find him. I panicked. He was right there, thank goodness. After that, I put cinder blocks in a circle on my dried up grass, it was winter. I I suggest you do something like this. Summer it isn't going to matter cuz again you will just take him out a couple times a week for the UV and fresh air. I did this for the first 2 1/2 years of his life. I got mine in November too. So it was the spring/summer after that we put ours outside. My husband and I had a tin made shed outside, I fixed it up EXACTLY the way his inside SEALED habitat was. NOTHING changed, except now we were covering a much larger area. It became very expensive. * I used warm mist humidifiers when we moved him outside to a 5X6ft. shed. I ran out every morning and filled them up. But this ISN'T perfect. He would get scales on his eyes, so every day I would go out with a salt water solution and q-tips and wash his eyes. I bought a wagon, (what's in the picture), we continued to soak him outside. I would run warm water that I got out of the house and filled the wagon up. I made a sealed cover for the wagon, it was like a sauna, this was in the winter. I immediately would put him back into his warm humid shed so he wouldn't catch pneumonia or something. I would let him soak for 30-45 minutes. I checked the temp of the water with my temp gun before I put him in. NOW REMEMBER I'M TALKING THE OUTSIDE SHED AFTER HE IS 3-ISH. We insulated the inside with 2 inch foam board, floor had 3/4 plywood on the bottom then a 2" foam board then another 3/4 plywood. I had a red heat mat, a heat panel 12-16 inches from the top of his shell AND a oil heater. Everything was set on either thermostat or timers. They each helped keep him warm in the winter. We put shower curtains all around the outside of the shed and then enclosed that with house siding, especially the door!!! It was sealed REALLY good! It sweat! The door weighed a lot but I managed every day. I'm in my middle 50's. When it was too cold for any length of time he had all of this and his UV light (uv light was on a timer, came on during the day and off at night) I'm just telling you what we ended up doing. Again when it was nice in the winter I would coax him out, he liked to eat some dead grass etc. and then on his own had enough and would go back in. I wouldn't soak him on those days. I would open his hatch door in the morning and CLOSE it at night. We had the vinyl freezer slats that he would go through on his hatch door. I DON'T suggest you start out this way. BE PREPARED, make one of Tom's 4X4 or 4X8 boxes. I disconnected everything in the summer except they heat panel and humidifiers. I had cool mist humidifiers for the summer but kept them running. I would encourage him to come out on good days. BUT this won't be until he is about 3 years old. We just built him one of Tom's 4X4 box. I needed to get away from my electric bill!!! And the water and he was getting too heavy for me to put in the wagon. Not only that he was getting too big for the wagon. He would try and get out. I was afraid of him falling, so I would start the sprinkler and let him romp in it IN the summer. We hadn't planned for soaking this winter. He is 6 now. And huge and destructive. My yard is about 1/2 of an acre. We put everything in raised gardens and planted everything he can eat. We don't use pesticides or weed killer. He continues to try to get out even though he can't see on the other side of the cinder blocks 2 and in some places 3 high. The other day he got wedged between my huge rose pot, my heavy duty lawn swing and the cinder blocks, sideways. We don't know why he just all of a sudden decided to do this. Maybe he didn't like the new 4x4 box?! And got angry? But I like it! He weighs about 40lbs now. It's going to be crazy as he gets older, stronger and heavier! I hope this helps. Maggie has Knobby she is dealing with too. Maybe you can find and read about Maggie's problem with Knobby. Good luck!
Be careful of Lowe's bark. The stuff I bought had vermiculite in it. Make sure it doesn't have any.I’ve been searching like crazy and finally found a local lumber yard that carries fir bark. Going to check it out this week. If that isn’t what I’m looking for I’ve found small bags of orchid bark at Lowe’s and a farm feed store. Or cypress mulch just about everywhere.