Shell is soft

Kevin Kaz

Member
Joined
Apr 8, 2016
Messages
97
My 3 smaller torts shells are soft... they have efficient humidity around 75%+, eat with calcium 2 times a week(normally Wednesday and Sundays), get soaked for 20-30mins in 80-90degree water. What am I doing wrong?
Thank you!
 

dmmj

The member formerly known as captain awesome
10 Year Member!
Joined
Aug 15, 2008
Messages
19,695
Location (City and/or State)
CA
Shells take time to harden . You have to worry when the shells start getting softer. Are they all being housed together?
 

Kevin Kaz

Member
Joined
Apr 8, 2016
Messages
97
Shells take time to harden . You have to worry when the shells start getting softer. Are they all being housed together?
Yes they are together. They’re almost 2 yrs old and softer than they have ever been....
 

Tom

The Dog Trainer
10 Year Member!
Platinum Tortoise Club
Joined
Jan 9, 2010
Messages
63,264
Location (City and/or State)
Southern California
My 3 smaller torts shells are soft... they have efficient humidity around 75%+, eat with calcium 2 times a week(normally Wednesday and Sundays), get soaked for 20-30mins in 80-90degree water. What am I doing wrong?
Thank you!
All the info you listed sounds good, but I didn't hear anything about UV or D3, which are the two things needed to allow their shells to properly harden up. Also, please go into your user profile and put in what part of the world you are in. Different advice for Northern Greenland vs. The Florida Keys.
 

TheKB

Member
Joined
Apr 24, 2019
Messages
22
Location (City and/or State)
Finland
Calcium doesn't help if they don't get sunlight. They need UVB to make vitamin D which is vital part of the metabolism of calcium in the body. Without sunlight the calcium you are feeding will just be pooped and peed out and none of it is used by the turtle so the turtle starts to use the calcium stored their bones and shell to keep going. If you have UVB light you should replace it, as the lights stop emitting UVB after few months.

For now get them a new UVB light and direct sunlight (glass and plastic will filter UVB) and feed them calcium every day and you should be good.
 

Kevin Kaz

Member
Joined
Apr 8, 2016
Messages
97
All the info you listed sounds good, but I didn't hear anything about UV or D3, which are the two things needed to allow their shells to properly harden up. Also, please go into your user profile and put in what part of the world you are in. Different advice for Northern Greenland vs. The Florida Keys.
I’m in Cleveland OH. They have a UVA bulb, only UV bulb I found that hasn’t blown out in a two week span or fluorescent. I use a 75 watt in their current 3x2 feet area. Once summer comes and my dad has his truck out for the summer, I’m setting up an outdoor habitat so they have natural sun! The calcium powder I use is ZooMed Repti-Calcium
 

Tom

The Dog Trainer
10 Year Member!
Platinum Tortoise Club
Joined
Jan 9, 2010
Messages
63,264
Location (City and/or State)
Southern California
Tortoises must have UV B and warm temperatures to convert dietary D2 into D3. Without D3, all the calcium in the world is useless to them.

You need to order a good UV bulb today. Like right now. If the weather is warm enough, you need to get them outside in a pen with access to sun ASAP.

Get a HO florescent tube for UV. Its the best way to go. Either the Zoomed 10.0 or the Arcadia 12%.

Does your calcium supplement have D3?
 

dmmj

The member formerly known as captain awesome
10 Year Member!
Joined
Aug 15, 2008
Messages
19,695
Location (City and/or State)
CA
If you are getting sunlight now I would take them out for an hour or two under careful supervision of course. & start supplementing calcium
 

Kevin Kaz

Member
Joined
Apr 8, 2016
Messages
97
Tortoises must have UV B and warm temperatures to convert dietary D2 into D3. Without D3, all the calcium in the world is useless to them.

You need to order a good UV bulb today. Like right now. If the weather is warm enough, you need to get them outside in a pen with access to sun ASAP.

Get a HO florescent tube for UV. Its the best way to go. Either the Zoomed 10.0 or the Arcadia 12%.

Does your calcium supplement have D3?
It says on the calcium bottle, it does have D3 in it! Like 10.?%
 

Kevin Kaz

Member
Joined
Apr 8, 2016
Messages
97
If you are getting sunlight now I would take them out for an hour or two under careful supervision of course. & start supplementing calcium
By the time I get home from work it’s at like 60 degrees. Only 1 time it has been over 75 degrees. We are having 50-65 degrees all week and rain or partially cloudy
 

jockma

Well-Known Member
5 Year Member
Joined
Jul 12, 2015
Messages
641
Location (City and/or State)
Los Angeles County
It says on the calcium bottle, it does have D3 in it! Like 10.?%

Their bodies can not utilize the D3 in their diet/supplements without sunlight or an artificial source of UVB. Even if you fed D3 by the mouthful, which you shouldn’t, their shells would not harden. UVA is important too, but what your tortoises need is a UVB source.

Without UVB, the soft shell (which is reversible) can progress to full-on metabolic bone disease (which is irreversible, especially if bone deformities have set in). I’m not sure how much sunlight is needed to combat MBD, but I would recommend getting a UVB bulb for now if you’re uncomfortable with taking them outside. I would treat this as an urgent issue.

To be blunt, MBD is fatal if it progresses enough. It can also cause severe deformities in their entire skeletal structure that seriously affect their quality of life.
 

Tom

The Dog Trainer
10 Year Member!
Platinum Tortoise Club
Joined
Jan 9, 2010
Messages
63,264
Location (City and/or State)
Southern California
Their bodies can not utilize the D3 in their diet/supplements without sunlight or an artificial source of UVB. Even if you fed D3 by the mouthful,

For years I thought this was the case, or seemed to be the case in the absence of any study that said otherwise. Will @Kapidolo Farms recently convinced me that tortoises can use dietary D3. Haven't tested it myself yet, but...

In a case like this one where there is clearly a problem, and dietary D3 does not appear to be working, I think it best to attack the problem from both directions: Dietarily and through a good UV source.
 

Kevin Kaz

Member
Joined
Apr 8, 2016
Messages
97
For years I thought this was the case, or seemed to be the case in the absence of any study that said otherwise. Will @Kapidolo Farms recently convinced me that tortoises can use dietary D3. Haven't tested it myself yet, but...

In a case like this one where there is clearly a problem, and dietary D3 does not appear to be working, I think it best to attack the problem from both directions: Dietarily and through a good UV source.
I already ordered the ZooMed 10.0 after you respond with it.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Tom

Kevin Kaz

Member
Joined
Apr 8, 2016
Messages
97
For years I thought this was the case, or seemed to be the case in the absence of any study that said otherwise. Will @Kapidolo Farms recently convinced me that tortoises can use dietary D3. Haven't tested it myself yet, but...

In a case like this one where there is clearly a problem, and dietary D3 does not appear to be working, I think it best to attack the problem from both directions: Dietarily and through a good UV source.
Actually my 3 smaller torts I ordered from Will!
 

Tom

The Dog Trainer
10 Year Member!
Platinum Tortoise Club
Joined
Jan 9, 2010
Messages
63,264
Location (City and/or State)
Southern California
Actually my 3 smaller torts I ordered from Will!
Well that means that they were extremely well started, well hydrated, well fed, and they had a leg up on life from day one. Good choice there.
 

Kevin Kaz

Member
Joined
Apr 8, 2016
Messages
97
Well that means that they were extremely well started, well hydrated, well fed, and they had a leg up on life from day one. Good choice there.
Came across him on a Facebook in one of my tortoise group.
 

Kapidolo Farms

Well-Known Member
10 Year Member!
Tortoise Club
Platinum Tortoise Club
Joined
Nov 7, 2012
Messages
5,173
Location (City and/or State)
South of Southern California, but not Mexico
It would be my "guess" that they are not exposed to high enough temps. @Markw84 posted a ratio of D3 utilization to temps diagram or text. Some part of the process needs that higher body temp.

FWIW, basking at 70F is good, as they can accumulate heat with sun exposure. One of those temperature guns can help you see this in action.

I had a few testudo with the same issue, I gave them a CHE and their shells hardened up over several weeks. It is my thought that different species might have different minimum temps to utilize the calcium and D vitamins for laying down bone. Leopards seem to need those higher temps, as do Testudo species.
 
Top