ANOTHER Night Box Thread...

Tom

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Have you ever had a problem with a tortoise burning themselves on the mat? what are the pros to putting the mat on the floor rather than the side of the box?

There are some people who put them on the sides, but that is not an effective way to use them. Heat rises, and Craig Kane himself told me that he wouldn't recommend using them that way. I want the tortoise to be on the warm spot and let the heat rise through its body. I don't want the tortoise on the cold floor and getting some heat on one side.

Kane heat mats have a built in safety thermostat embedded in the pad. If ever the main thermostat should fail, this fail-safe will shut the pad off and prevent over heating.

I've been using Kane mats since 2001 and I've never had any problems at all with them. No burns and no malfunctions of any kind. Right now I have 4 of them in use, but I've had as many as 8 going at once.
 

Tom

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Would something like this be useful for Russian torts? I know they like to dig but could it work?

Absolutely. Russians don't need it to be kept all that warm at night, but this would extend the time they could stay out in Fall, and allow you to get them out earlier in Spring. The thermostat could be set at 60-65, so they still get a night time drop, but its not too warm. Night temps here in fall and spring are usually in the 40s and sometimes 30s, even though the days are fairly warm and sunny. Keeping the box at 60-65 lets me leave them outside, when I would otherwise have to bring them in every night.

Here is how I did it:
http://www.tortoiseforum.org/threads/heating-an-outdoor-russian-night-box.116180/#post-1077261

An above ground box could work too. I went underground because it gets really hot here in summer (Every day is near or above 100 degrees…) and being underground allows them to stay nice and cool. This would not be as much of a problem in OH in the shade.
 

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Another great thread! How big for a red foot? I don't want to have it be so big that I heat space needlessly. Also how big of a door?
 

Tom

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How hot do those radiant heat panels get? I see them advertising that they won't burn the reptile even with direct contact which makes me curious regarding their efficacy for heating air space?

Have you seen these (link below)? I think these are a great technology for heating tortoise enclosures.

http://www.spyderrobotics.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=45

They get hot enough to keep my 4x4' boxes at 86 F on a 30 F night, in combination with the Kane mats.
 

Tom

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Another great thread! How big for a red foot? I don't want to have it be so big that I heat space needlessly. Also how big of a door?

I like them to have enough room to be inside the box, but off of the heat mat. The actual inside dimensions of my 4x4' boxes is 39x39". The heat mat is 18" wide. I suppose you could make the box 30x30 inside for an adult RF.

I would go 2" taller and 2" wider than a large RF for your door. I make the doors 16x26" for a sulcata and that would fit a 100 pounder. I think 10x12" would fit any RF.
 

Oxalis

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I did it again. :)
And I'm going to keep doing it too! :D

Here is the latest night box. Its similar to the others, but I wanted to show more of the electrics involved and how I use them. I made this one for my two returning Gpp females. I gave these two girls to a friend in 2010 and he raised them. They both turned out to be female, while most of mine are male. He offered to give them back to me in the hopes of producing some babies in the future. They will live alone for a couple of months for quarantine and fecal exam purposes, but then they will join the other girls.

Here we go...

Here is the almost finished box showing the yet uncovered insulation inside the walls.
3310ths.jpg




Here is the assortment of equipment going into this box:
30bk60g.jpg




The heat mat and radiant heat panel have been mounted here, as has the shoe box that will hold all the excess wires.
s5vm6v.jpg




Here you can see all the cords and the thermostat all hooked up and stuffed into the shoe box. You can also see my thermostat probe hanging on the wall on the "cool" side. Notice the "drip loops" on the cord coming in to the box and inside the box. More on that later.
s1kkk5.jpg




Close up of the shoe box:
2ngd1dx.jpg




See how nice it looks with the cords all contained? :) Notice that drip loop again...
mcub1l.jpg




A wider view of the whole thing. In this one you can see my GFI circuit that I'm plugged into:
2uy6n4p.jpg




Here is that "drip loop" that I keep talking about. I learned this back in my early aquarium days. You see, water runs downhill. Amazing right?! In the event of an earthquake or other aquarium splashes, the idea is that if you have a "loop" so that your cords always run downhill first and then uphill into your outlets, water will not be guided into your outlet. Instead it will come to the bottom of the loop and drip down to the ground harmlessly. I did one outside this new tortoise box and inside, just to be safe.
i4o7pk.jpg




Here it is open for business.
5lteuu.jpg



In my excitement I forgot to get pics of the new inhabitants. I'll get some pics and post those later.
Drool... Lucky torts! They are definitely spoiled and that's the way I like it. ;) Another home run, @Tom!!
 

klawran1

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Absolutely. Russians don't need it to be kept all that warm at night, but this would extend the time they could stay out in Fall, and allow you to get them out earlier in Spring. The thermostat could be set at 60-65, so they still get a night time drop, but its not too warm. Night temps here in fall and spring are usually in the 40s and sometimes 30s, even though the days are fairly warm and sunny. Keeping the box at 60-65 lets me leave them outside, when I would otherwise have to bring them in every night.

Here is how I did it:
http://www.tortoiseforum.org/threads/heating-an-outdoor-russian-night-box.116180/#post-1077261

An above ground box could work too. I went underground because it gets really hot here in summer (Every day is near or above 100 degrees…) and being underground allows them to stay nice and cool. This would not be as much of a problem in OH in the shade.


I love your other thread on the underground box you built for your Russians for the summer heat. Will this heated box work to keep them cool in the summer as well? (Obviously without the heater turned on) Or should I go ahead and invest in building one box for summer and a heated box for winter? I have one Russian and I live in North Georgia. I want him and my Leopard outside as long as I can get away with before the ice comes. Thanks in advance!
 

klawran1

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Uh... Or looking back, this is the same box, only with heat added, correct?
 

Tom

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I love your other thread on the underground box you built for your Russians for the summer heat. Will this heated box work to keep them cool in the summer as well? (Obviously without the heater turned on) Or should I go ahead and invest in building one box for summer and a heated box for winter? I have one Russian and I live in North Georgia. I want him and my Leopard outside as long as I can get away with before the ice comes. Thanks in advance!

The net result of using all that insulation and sealling the boxes is that it resists temperature change. If you have a cool evening and the interior of the box cool in the summertime, it will tend to stay cooler longer than the outside. However, by the end of the day the inside of my boxes is just as hot as the outside temperature in most cases.

Unless your daily high temperature is at or above 100°F most of the summer days, I would not worry too much about keeping them cool. If you live in the desert like I do, or in Phoenix Arizona, where a summer day under 100°F is a rare thing, then you need to start thinking about going underground.

What are the daily summer highs in your area?
 

klawran1

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I think the hottest it got this summer was 99, feels like 105. I just moved to the area last year from Tallahassee, FL, but my torts were inside there since I was renting and had no safe outdoor area. I'd like to say it stays no more than the low to mid 90s in an average summer, though there is the occasional scorching day.
 

klawran1

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Oh and one other question. For the larger Sulcata box with the heat mat on the floor, is pee an issue? My leopard has a large bladder, it seems. I didn't want her to short anything out. Should I lay something down in there to help with cleaning?
 
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If your climate is humid, you probably won't need, and shouldn't use, the water tubs in the box. Other than that, I'd do it the same.

This box is 4x4x2'.

That is an 80 watt Radiant Heat Panel. It is the 12x21" one. And the Kane mat is 18x28" and also around 80 watts.
Is there a benefit in purchasing the pad with the integrated thermostat ?
 

Tom

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Oh and one other question. For the larger Sulcata box with the heat mat on the floor, is pee an issue? My leopard has a large bladder, it seems. I didn't want her to short anything out. Should I lay something down in there to help with cleaning?

The Kane heat mats are actually "farrowing pads". Its for baby piglets to lay on and keep warm, but the large momma pig will walk all over it too. Imagine the mess in a pig sty. The Kane mats handle poo, pee, being hosed, being dirty and everything else a tortoise has to offer with no problem. The only thing you should be careful to prevent is letting flammable materials like hay or straw get on top of the mat.
 

klawran1

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The Kane heat mats are actually "farrowing pads". Its for baby piglets to lay on and keep warm, but the large momma pig will walk all over it too. Imagine the mess in a pig sty. The Kane mats handle poo, pee, being hosed, being dirty and everything else a tortoise has to offer with no problem. The only thing you should be careful to prevent is letting flammable materials like hay or straw get on top of the mat.

Okay, great. I wasn't planning to put in any substrate just in case. I appreciate the warning. :)
 

Tom

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Okay, great. I wasn't planning to put in any substrate just in case. I appreciate the warning. :)

I just use a layer of dirt on the bottom of my boxes. Works great. It absorbs all the messes and I just scrape out the mud and replace it with dry dirt as needed. Their poops just sit on the surface and I scrape them up with a doggy doo picker-upper. The dirt layer makes this very easy. The dirt will not interfere with the Kane mats, but I just keep the surface of the heat mat wiped free of dirt. It also won't hurt anything if they poop on the mat and you don't see it right away. It can sit there for days and it won't be a problem.
 

melissah

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I did it again. :)
And I'm going to keep doing it too! :D

Here is the latest night box. Its similar to the others, but I wanted to show more of the electrics involved and how I use them. I made this one for my two returning Gpp females. I gave these two girls to a friend in 2010 and he raised them. They both turned out to be female, while most of mine are male. He offered to give them back to me in the hopes of producing some babies in the future. They will live alone for a couple of months for quarantine and fecal exam purposes, but then they will join the other girls.

Here we go...

Here is the almost finished box showing the yet uncovered insulation inside the walls.
3310ths.jpg




Here is the assortment of equipment going into this box:
30bk60g.jpg




The heat mat and radiant heat panel have been mounted here, as has the shoe box that will hold all the excess wires.
s5vm6v.jpg




Here you can see all the cords and the thermostat all hooked up and stuffed into the shoe box. You can also see my thermostat probe hanging on the wall on the "cool" side. Notice the "drip loops" on the cord coming in to the box and inside the box. More on that later.
s1kkk5.jpg




Close up of the shoe box:
2ngd1dx.jpg




See how nice it looks with the cords all contained? :) Notice that drip loop again...
mcub1l.jpg




A wider view of the whole thing. In this one you can see my GFI circuit that I'm plugged into:
2uy6n4p.jpg




Here is that "drip loop" that I keep talking about. I learned this back in my early aquarium days. You see, water runs downhill. Amazing right?! In the event of an earthquake or other aquarium splashes, the idea is that if you have a "loop" so that your cords always run downhill first and then uphill into your outlets, water will not be guided into your outlet. Instead it will come to the bottom of the loop and drip down to the ground harmlessly. I did one outside this new tortoise box and inside, just to be safe.
i4o7pk.jpg




Here it is open for business.
5lteuu.jpg



In my excitement I forgot to get pics of the new inhabitants. I'll get some pics and post those later.
WOW Tom that is awesome!! I absolutely love the area and set up!! Very lucky tortoises indeed :)
 

Big Charlie

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@Tom and anyone else who can answer. I posted this question on another thread and didn't get an answer so here it is again:
I'm still really confused by all the choices. I have a radiant heat panel in the roof and this thermostat: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01486LZ50/?tag=exoticpetnetw-20
You can plug two things into it and they would both go on and off depending on the temperature set. I can't figure out which Kane (or other brand) heat mat to get for the floor: one with a rheostat, one with a thermostat, or just a plain one, and whether it is smart to have them both plugged into the same controller. I think the Kane mats at Tortoise supply don't have either a rheostat or thermostat. If I get one of those, do I need to buy a separate rheostat beyond the controller I already have? Do I want to be able to set the temperature on the Kane mat to a lower or different temperature than my RHP?
 

Tom

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It doesn't matter which of the Kane mats you get. Whatever you get, you will crank it all the way up, and your thermostat will turn it on or off, depending on the temp.

When temp drops below 80, the thermostat will turn on both the RHP and the Kane mat. If the temp rises above 80 in the box, the thermostat will turn both items off. If your torte gets too warm because the RHP and heat mat are on all night on a cold night, he can move off of the mat.
 
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