Your Opinion on Kamp Kenan Advice on leos. Good ? Bad ?

Yvonne G

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I've seen a couple, but he advocates keeping the babies the old school way, so I don't give him any credibility. Also, he lives in Florida - it's very humid there. Most of us don't live in Florida and we are unable to follow his advice in our geographical areas.
 

Markw84

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I think he is a good guy that means well but is missing the mark. His charisma and celebrity could be used to really promote the understanding of chelonians, but in trying to pass himself off as an expert, he is instead contributing to a lot of misconceptions and promoting methods that not only don't work in most cases, but can lead to bad results, illness for the tortoises, and ultimate frustration for the keeper looking for advice. He would be much better served to promote himself as an investigator and fellow enthusiast, looking for best practices, and showing examples of great chelonians and keepers. When he instead draws conclusions and starts making statements as fact and giving advice on husbandry, when he has not yet had experience universal enough, and then starts giving advice on a forum as international as he has chosen, he crosses over to dangerous. Show us what works in a particular situation, and what is getting great results in another. But don't draw conclusions and give international advice until you can show results that work everywhere. OR, at least qualify the results as "I know this will work in these situations".

If you simply look at his video on pyramiding as one example. (That is a very serious and exhaustive study and interest of mine!) He states as fact many myths. Let me compare his statement to what I have found...

Metabolic bone disease can lead to pyramiding. False - totally separate issues! You can have smooth tortoise with MBD and extremely pyramide tortoises with no MBD.
Lack of sunlight will lead to pyramiding. false - There are plenty of totally smooth tortoises raised totally indoors.
Wild tortoises may not be pyramided because they have worn down the pyramids! False - If they wore down pyramids, we would see raw bone as the keratin layer remains uniformly thin over pyramids and the bone itself has been deformed into the pyramid. New keratin will not be laid down in the center of a worn scute.
Pyramiding is the bone growing up into pyramids. False - the pyramid is actually caused by the bone being force DOWN at the seams as new keratin is added.
Improper diet will contribute to pyramiding. False - I've seen smooth tortoise grown on the worst imaginable diets - and with MBD as mentioned above.
You need to slow down the growth to promote smooth growth. Fast growth leads to pyramiding. False - some of the fastest growing tortoises I've ever heard of and seen are right here on this forum, and totally smooth. My own Burmese Stars I bought from one of the most respected Chelonian centers in the world (Who Kenan toured and interviewed in several videos) subscribed to the slow growth theory and ALL of their Burmese Stars are pyramided. Yet the 8 I have obtained from them All immediately starting growing at over 3 times the rate and dramatically smoother immediately.

I could go on, but my point is that by promoting himself as THE expert, how many automatically put weight and credibility on all his advice, and start implementing "his" methods in their circumstances, when he is in fact off base? It is so tempting in chelonian husbandry to draw conclusions if your way seems to be working for you. But is something is successful, we often learn the least from those scenarios. It is failure that is the ultimate teacher. In the example of pyramiding - show me the person who has fought with and struggled with countless scenarios trying to find a way to eliminate pyramiding. Each time finding examples that DON'T work. Now we can start eliminating things! And now finds a way through it all to eliminate pyramiding time and again in a way that others in vastly different locations can duplicate. Now that's a person who's earned the right to be giving advice. Mr Kenan would be better served to be finding and promoting those people. That would be worth listening to!
 

Fl@sh

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I think he is a good guy that means well but is missing the mark. His charisma and celebrity could be used to really promote the understanding of chelonians, but in trying to pass himself off as an expert, he is instead contributing to a lot of misconceptions and promoting methods that not only don't work in most cases, but can lead to bad results, illness for the tortoises, and ultimate frustration for the keeper looking for advice. He would be much better served to promote himself as an investigator and fellow enthusiast, looking for best practices, and showing examples of great chelonians and keepers. When he instead draws conclusions and starts making statements as fact and giving advice on husbandry, when he has not yet had experience universal enough, and then starts giving advice on a forum as international as he has chosen, he crosses over to dangerous. Show us what works in a particular situation, and what is getting great results in another. But don't draw conclusions and give international advice until you can show results that work everywhere. OR, at least qualify the results as "I know this will work in these situations".

If you simply look at his video on pyramiding as one example. (That is a very serious and exhaustive study and interest of mine!) He states as fact many myths. Let me compare his statement to what I have found...

Metabolic bone disease can lead to pyramiding. False - totally separate issues! You can have smooth tortoise with MBD and extremely pyramide tortoises with no MBD.
Lack of sunlight will lead to pyramiding. false - There are plenty of totally smooth tortoises raised totally indoors.
Wild tortoises may not be pyramided because they have worn down the pyramids! False - If they wore down pyramids, we would see raw bone as the keratin layer remains uniformly thin over pyramids and the bone itself has been deformed into the pyramid. New keratin will not be laid down in the center of a worn scute.
Pyramiding is the bone growing up into pyramids. False - the pyramid is actually caused by the bone being force DOWN at the seams as new keratin is added.
Improper diet will contribute to pyramiding. False - I've seen smooth tortoise grown on the worst imaginable diets - and with MBD as mentioned above.
You need to slow down the growth to promote smooth growth. Fast growth leads to pyramiding. False - some of the fastest growing tortoises I've ever heard of and seen are right here on this forum, and totally smooth. My own Burmese Stars I bought from one of the most respected Chelonian centers in the world (Who Kenan toured and interviewed in several videos) subscribed to the slow growth theory and ALL of their Burmese Stars are pyramided. Yet the 8 I have obtained from them All immediately starting growing at over 3 times the rate and dramatically smoother immediately.

I could go on, but my point is that by promoting himself as THE expert, how many automatically put weight and credibility on all his advice, and start implementing "his" methods in their circumstances, when he is in fact off base? It is so tempting in chelonian husbandry to draw conclusions if your way seems to be working for you. But is something is successful, we often learn the least from those scenarios. It is failure that is the ultimate teacher. In the example of pyramiding - show me the person who has fought with and struggled with countless scenarios trying to find a way to eliminate pyramiding. Each time finding examples that DON'T work. Now we can start eliminating things! And now finds a way through it all to eliminate pyramiding time and again in a way that others in vastly different locations can duplicate. Now that's a person who's earned the right to be giving advice. Mr Kenan would be better served to be finding and promoting those people. That would be worth listening to!
Thank you for this comprehensive cover, look he has lovely torts and ive read articles in this forum that sing his praise when it comes to buying or receiving babies from him. i enjoy his animals but i shall overlook his advice from now on
 

Markw84

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Thank you for this comprehensive cover, look he has lovely torts and ive read articles in this forum that sing his praise when it comes to buying or receiving babies from him. i enjoy his animals but i shall overlook his advice from now on
Don't misunderstand. I do enjoy his video and find them quite entertaining. And part of my comment is that he has a wonderful opportunity to advance awareness and understanding of chelonians using his celebrity and professional video-making team. As his experience widens, I think (hope) his advice becomes more careful and match the international scope of his audience.

As @ZEROPILOT points out, his location in Florida is perfect for him and most of his tortoises. I wish I had that type of climate to start with for my enclosures! As a result, his babies should be good, and it sounds like his customer service and attention is excellent.
 

kanalomele

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I typically find that the care he often recommends is out of step with my standard of care. I don't keep as wide a variety of species as he does and I think that he is trying but I honestly think he is growing too fast for the tortoises good. I worry when any breeder divides his focus in the ways that so many are nowadays. But that InstaFame that Social Media can offer is intoxicating.
 

DeanMckinney

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I have to be honest and say that I really like Kenan and find him to be a great source of general care for reptiles. I think he spends a lot of time showing and explaining a wide variety of care and setups that many keepers benefit from, but you must realize that not all info applies to every animal or geographic region. I myself have had luck keeping my animals differently from many of others suggestions and have found things from forums or videos helpful at times. The best thing you can do is research, watch hundreds of videos, participate in conversations and find what works best for you. I find his videos offer great info and ideas for outdoor enclosures and great visual inspiration for what could be. If we all keep sharing, our animals will benefit greatly.
 

Tom

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Thank you to @Markw84 for explaining with tact and poise exactly my sentiments on the matter.

I would not have worded it so eloquently or tactfully, but all of my points were well covered and explained.
 

Rover15

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Thank you to @Markw84 for explaining with tact and poise exactly my sentiments on the matter.

I would not have worded it so eloquently or tactfully, but all of my points were well covered and explained.
I know this thread is old, but my thoughts are this.

I have read countless threads on many spiese of tortoises and turtles on here, some I dont own or ever plan on owning. I startrd watching Kamp Kenan because someone pointed him out to me as another turtle source, after hearing a few old methods he promotes I thought Id search his name here on the forum. After reading it sounds like people have contact with him or via a friend of a friend.

With that being said, @Tom have you ever tired to reach out to him to show him your methods, or trials and errors? I respect your post and information you provide so I think it would be cool to see him do an episode at your place or see what you have to offer to help educate the general public and those he crosses still doing things the old way.

Food for thought

Or if all else fails start your own channel and have us the TFO as followers XD
 

Brit G

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Really interesting conversation... I admit he seemed to know exactly what he was talking about, so as a complete newbie to tortoises, I really took all of his advice to heart. If he were my ONLY source of research, I might not have known there were conflicting theories on pyramiding and other topics! (Thank god I started lurking on this forum lmao)
 

Destben

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I've seen a couple, but he advocates keeping the babies the old school way, so I don't give him any credibility. Also, he lives in Florida - it's very humid there. Most of us don't live in Florida and we are unable to follow his advice in our geographical areas.
Yvonne is right. My tort got sick because i set up like i lived in Florida because i watched his show to learn how to take care of my tort before I got her.
 

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