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Why do people breed Sulcata's

Discussion in 'Debatable Topics' started by Candy, Oct 4, 2009.

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  1. bettinge

    bettinge Member

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    I think another lure of Sulcata breeding is the large clutch size! I wonder how many people would buy Sully's if the law restricted the sale of them to only ones that are over 20 pounds.

    When I decided to get a tortoise, I did lots of research on the adult size and enclosure requirements of different species. I finally chose Greeks and Hermanns because they fit what I could offer. If I lived in a warmer climate and had lots of property, I would have many Sulcatas......I thinlk they are awsome!
  2. TylerStewart

    TylerStewart Member

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    Like almost everything the government does, that law wouldn't work. You're already not supposed to sell them under 4", yet it happens openly everywhere. Only a small handful of states do any enforcement of it, and if a 20 pound law was made, it would still be enforced by the same people enforcing the 4" law.

    I again agree with EJ on this, and I remain confused about where all the abused, mistreated, neglected etc sulcatas are. I'm in Las Vegas, and I know of none in any rescues here. They still routinely sell at local pet stores (here) for hundreds of dollars for big males, and I recently traded a spare 75lb male and a small 4" juvie for a root canal to a dentist that wanted a big tortoise (I owed him $780 after my insurance paid half). I am constantly told at shows by customers how happy they are with their 100lb lawnmowers, and how much joy they bring into their lives. I stand by my past statement that if rescues are complaining about sulcatas piling up, they are simply not trying to get rid of them. Plenty of people want them.

    What's not to love?
    [​IMG]
  3. Vegas_Leopard

    Vegas_Leopard Member

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    I love Sulcata's, the end.
  4. Yvonne G

    Yvonne G Old Timer Staff Member

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    I'm sure its geographical. The area I live in, Central California, doesn't have that many tortoise-lovers, and once you've sold each of them a baby leopard, or adopted out all your sulcatas, there just aren't that many more folks here that want or can fit another tortoise into their lives. Seems to me that the American Tortoise Rescue had to stop taking in sulcatas because they had too many.

    I practically had to give my baby leopards away at 2 for $50. And there are only 3 folks on my Sulcata list. Thankfully this was a pretty slow year for adoptions. I only took in one baby sulcata and didn't get in any larger ones. Whew!

    Yvonne
  5. -EJ

    -EJ New Member

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    I'd of given you $100 for the two leopards.

    It also depends on the standard you have to adopt out.

  6. Yvonne G

    Yvonne G Old Timer Staff Member

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    Well, I'm pretty strict as far as safety for the tortoise goes, however if the yard isn't safe, I tell the people what they have to do to make it safe...fence the in-the-ground-pool or fence out the tortoise, fix the hole in the fence, provide a hiding place or a shelter...none of these are too much for the person to have to take care of. I'm only looking out for the tortoise's safety, not looking for a clean and perfect yard. In all the years I've been doing this, I've only failed two yards, and one of those was a veritable junk yard with no walking space between the wrecked cars and the rusted out kitchen appliances. The other one had a chain link fence all around and they didn't want to take precautions to keep the tortoise from pushing under.

    I had about 30 leopards hatch from 4 females. I had no trouble selling the first 20 at $100 apiece, but couldn't find any takers after that. So I went online and lowered to $75 because of the shipping. Sold a few more. Finally had to go down to $50 apiece and sold a couple more. The last 4 went for 2 for $50! Even so, I made a bit of a profit overall to help defray some of the rescue's vet bills! Then I adopted out (free) all the males so no more baby worries!

    Yvonne
  7. Meg90

    Meg90 Active Member

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    I think breeding sulcata is a bad idea. Its like breeding cats....like, if I got two kittens, let them grow up, and then have more kittens because I wanted to experience the miracle of life. Its a bad idea. Don't see unwanted torts in your area? Go on craigslist and type in tortoise. Misspell it if you like. Sometimes that helps.

    People treat them like garbage because they don't "emote" the way dogs and cats do. The tort is "fine" or "happy" being fed frozen veggies for 6 mos and kept without UVB and then dumped when the owners get bored.

    Why add to the problem just for kicks?
  8. -EJ

    -EJ New Member

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    I'm sorry... but the people who I know who have Sulcatas... adore them.

    I'm talking about people who have no interest in tortoises in general.

    Bottom line... your wrong.

    Again... think of how many are sold and how many show up as 'adoptions'.

  9. Meg90

    Meg90 Active Member

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    And again, think of how many just simply, die and are never offered the chance to have a real home?

    I am not against the Sulcata Species. I love torts. I think sullys are beautiful, and someday, when I live in a nice warm climate, with a nice piece of land, I will have one. Or more.

    But I do not think they should be so readily available to the general public. Backyard breeders just make it worse. The easier they are to obtain, the more of them will be tossed aside.
  10. TylerStewart

    TylerStewart Member

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    One minor (major) difference is that cats reproduce in a year, so the cat population gets out of control quickly. They are higher maintenance than a tortoise, and more costly (per month/year etc) to own than a tortoise. This contributes to cats being unwanted. Dogs are the same way. To me, my big sulcatas are some of the easier ones because they're happy and healthy eating grass.

    I would guess that a similar percentage of sulcatas die as babies as any other tortoise sold. So if 10% of sulcatas die in the first year, and 10% of redfoot tortoises die in the first year, should we also stop trying to produce redfoot tortoises?

    For what it's worth, I confirmed this morning on Craigslist that there are no unwanted tortoises in the Las Vegas area.
  11. Isa

    Isa New Member

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    Yes, but it does not say how many sulcatas live in the woods or in the streets because their owners were too lazy to sell them and it does not talk about the huge sulcatas who are abused and who lives in enclosures smaller than we can think of.
  12. Yvonne G

    Yvonne G Old Timer Staff Member

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    I don't know the point you were trying to make with the cats comment, but an adult female sulcata will lay around 30 eggs in a clutch and she will nest three or four times a year. That would be way more sulcata babies in a year than one female cat can produce.

    Yvonne
  13. -EJ

    -EJ New Member

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    Needless to say... Sulcatas are not a problem. Supply and demand will dictate how many are sold.

    I've never come across a Sulcata in the woods or walking down the street although Herman (Ref Free Sulcata) was found walking down the street. I really do not think that was a case of neglect.
  14. TylerStewart

    TylerStewart Member

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    My point was that a pair of kittens, over the course of 10 years, will produce many more kittens than a pair of baby sulcatas over the same amount of time. The kittens would be multiplying yearly, and those kittens yearly. Nothing would happen with the sulcatas until the 10th year, give or take. The amount of cats (1000's), dogs (1,000's), and sulcatas (0) in shelters and rescues here in Vegas clearly back up this fact.

    Call me the bad guy, but in all my attempts, I've never had a female sulcata lay 30 eggs 3 or 4 times a year. And I have a lot of females ;)
  15. Stephanie Logan

    Stephanie Logan Active Member

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    One minor (major) difference is that cats reproduce in a year, so the cat population gets out of control quickly. They are higher maintenance than a tortoise, and more costly (per month/year etc) to own than a tortoise. This contributes to cats being unwanted.

    As a cat lover and owner of four cats, I have to say that cats are much cheaper and lower maintenance than the one tortoise we have had; at least, now that we are keeping the tortoise properly in a cage with space, substrate, lighting, humidity, and a varied diet with calcium and TNT supplements. A lot of equipment and habitat requirements compared to my cats, but I don't mind and am happy to do it.

    I would think the diet and indoor care requirements for a Sulcata would be significantly more expensive than for a cat, and the outdoor requirements, the space and the strong deep fence and hide, etc, would also add to the overall cost.

    AHHH! How do you guys highlight the quote from a previous post in your current post?! I hate being so computer-challenged!
  16. Isa

    Isa New Member

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    Well a friend of mine saw a huge tortoise on the highway near the woods, maybe it was a Sulcata but then again maybe not. And yes, I believe some people instead of selling their Sulcata's because they are getting too big will bring them in the woods or somewhere near the highway. Before when I said streets I was talking about the kind of streets in rural places where there are a lot of farms not the street in front of your house. The problem is some pet store or whatever will not tell the buyer the Sulcata will get huge so when they get big, some people are just iresponsable. I think it is sad because it is an amazing tortoise. Too bad my winters are sooo cold because I would want one for sure. Where I live, they sell sulcata, sometime during the winter the temps can go down to -40C. It is very cold, It must be very hard to keep a huge sulcata warm during a winter that cold.
  17. Yvonne G

    Yvonne G Old Timer Staff Member

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    When you hit "reply" to a post, that person's post shows up in your reply box. If you want their whole post to be in your answer, you just leave it alone. If you only want a part or a sentence, then you delete everything you don't want, but you must leave the [quote.......quote] symbols at the beginning and the end of their post.

    Yvonne
  18. Stephanie Logan

    Stephanie Logan Active Member

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    Ah, the "Quote" symbols...of course it would have to be an easy answer. It usually is...

    Thanks, Yvonne. :)
  19. Yvonne G

    Yvonne G Old Timer Staff Member

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    I neglected to mention, that you have to hit the "reply" button that is within the person's post that you want to reply to, NOT the "new reply" button that is at the top or at the bottom of the page.

    YVonne
  20. terryo

    terryo Well-Known Member

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    This was posted in the Fall news letter on Felice's World of Turtles. She is in Sacramento, CA .

    On the adoption scene: If anyone bought baby Sulcatas at the recent reptile show, when it quickly grows large, poos and wees like a camel and takes out your fences and destroys whatever warm winter quarters you have provided because they do not hibernate and constantly chase you for food, please know that it is yours for life because there are NO homes available. At this writing, there are at least 8 of them on my 'waiting' list. Some are 100 pounds!! Someone described a Sulcata as follows: 'Take a large dogaloo, fill it with cement, put wheels on it and continually ram it into buildings.' Nice! Folks, please do NOT breed them. You may get a momentary thrill watching the eggs hatch, but it certainly isn't fair to the tortoises or the people who might end up with them for the next 75 years.
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