Which species ideal for SoCal zone 10a?

tomat0

New Member
Joined
Mar 30, 2017
Messages
15
Location (City and/or State)
SoCal - Zone 10a
The more I read, the more I want all tortoises! :(
I'm having a bit of trouble narrowing down the species I'd like to keep. So, hopefully with your suggestions I can make a better decision regarding the tortoise species that will thrive in the environment I can provide.

I'm located by Diamond Bar in SoCal zone 10a (winter lows of 30°F). Backyard is 6,000+ sq ft of dirt (grass/weeds), a relatively large fruit orchard and ornamental trees abound. I will provide a heated night hide of course. Grasses and food plants can be grown quite easily, particularly broad-leaf weeds. I also garden so that's another possibility.

If I could choose, I'd pick cherry-heads but I believe I'll run into issues with humidity. I have no other roaming pets and the yard is essentially organic.

Which species can thrive under this environment? Do I limit myself to a single male or multiple females? Possibly a harem? Help!
 

RosemaryDW

Well-Known Member
5 Year Member
Joined
Feb 17, 2016
Messages
4,144
Location (City and/or State)
Newport Coast, CA
I've got a very healthy and opinionated Russian in zone 10B.

What characteristics are you looking for?

I'd be prepared for hibernation if you are keeping testudo or desert tortoises outside, just to be on the safe side.

When you are ready, there is a good herp vet in Yorba Linda: Dr. Tom Greek. Enjoy choosing!
 

Tom

The Dog Trainer
10 Year Member!
Platinum Tortoise Club
Joined
Jan 9, 2010
Messages
63,265
Location (City and/or State)
Southern California
Sulcatas, desert tortoise, leopard tortoise, russian, greek, hermanni, pancake, Galapgos, Burmese Star can all thrive in your area. I think you are correct to avoid the RFs because of the lack of humidity. It just doesn't work well here.

You will have to keep all of these away from the fruit trees.

Best to keep singles. If you want more than one, have a separate enclosure for each. Groups of juveniles of any species usually get along. Groups of females usually get along. Groups with one male and several females usually get along, but you'll have a baby factory on your hands that way… Pairs of any species or sex combo seldom get along.

Check this out:
http://www.tortoiseforum.org/threads/beginner-mistakes.45180/
 

tomat0

New Member
Joined
Mar 30, 2017
Messages
15
Location (City and/or State)
SoCal - Zone 10a
@RosemaryDW Thanks for the advanced notice on the vet. Will come handy one day. :)
I particularly like personality and the ability to observe a tortoise thriving. Some visual appeal (e.g. Cherry-heads & SA Leopards) never hurts, but I'm not a fan of recluses (pancakes). That may sound vague, but in part that's essentially my reason for any pets -- to observe a small piece of nature in my man-made setting. That's why I'm not entirely against breeding, but understand not every animal can be bred within the confines of your average home.
Hibernation is fine with me. I can provide for that with no problems. As @Tom mentioned, I will have to humidity requiring species. It's just not worth the risk of an unhealthy animal.

@Tom, regarding the fruit trees.. is it because of the fruits and/or leaves? I understand fruit is not to be included in any desert species.

How do I go about choosing between those species since as far as I can tell, they can all thrive in my care (with exception of the Galapagos -- I'll leave that to the specialists!).
 

Tom

The Dog Trainer
10 Year Member!
Platinum Tortoise Club
Joined
Jan 9, 2010
Messages
63,265
Location (City and/or State)
Southern California
@Tom, regarding the fruit trees.. is it because of the fruits and/or leaves? I understand fruit is not to be included in any desert species.

Fruit is not good for the non-forrest types. It can really disturb their gut flora and fauna. The leaves of most fruit trees are also toxic. Some people believe that tortoises have survived for millions of years with out our help and they know what to eat or not eat. This might be true in some cases, some of the time, but its not true all of the time as tortoises regularly die from eating toxic foreign plants.
 

tomat0

New Member
Joined
Mar 30, 2017
Messages
15
Location (City and/or State)
SoCal - Zone 10a
Fruit is not good for the non-forrest types. It can really disturb their gut flora and fauna. The leaves of most fruit trees are also toxic. Some people believe that tortoises have survived for millions of years with out our help and they know what to eat or not eat. This might be true in some cases, some of the time, but its not true all of the time as tortoises regularly die from eating toxic foreign plants.
I have several citrus, stone fruits, and a few exotic trees. Going to heed your advice and block off the orchard. Do you know if banana leaves also pose a risk?
 

Tom

The Dog Trainer
10 Year Member!
Platinum Tortoise Club
Joined
Jan 9, 2010
Messages
63,265
Location (City and/or State)
Southern California
I particularly like personality and the ability to observe a tortoise thriving. Some visual appeal (e.g. Cherry-heads & SA Leopards) never hurts, but I'm not a fan of recluses (pancakes). That may sound vague, but in part that's essentially my reason for any pets -- to observe a small piece of nature in my man-made setting.

Desert tortoises will thrive in the Diamond Bar area and they have fantastic personalities. They will dig and use a burrow in summer, but at 10-12" they won't destroy the entire yard like a sulcata. A little male russian or hermanni sounds like it would fit your bill well too, and they would also do well in our temperate dry climate here with the right enclosure.

If you want something larger a SA leopard will also be very outgoing, but not destructive, and not a burrower.
 

tomat0

New Member
Joined
Mar 30, 2017
Messages
15
Location (City and/or State)
SoCal - Zone 10a
Desert tortoises will thrive in the Diamond Bar area and they have fantastic personalities. They will dig and use a burrow in summer, but at 10-12" they won't destroy the entire yard like a sulcata. A little male russian or hermanni sounds like it would fit your bill well too, and they would also do well in our temperate dry climate here with the right enclosure.

If you want something larger a SA leopard will also be very outgoing, but not destructive, and not a burrower.
Perfect! This helps a lot. Is there a particular reason you did not include the CDT and Greek tortoises?
 

Tom

The Dog Trainer
10 Year Member!
Platinum Tortoise Club
Joined
Jan 9, 2010
Messages
63,265
Location (City and/or State)
Southern California
Perfect! This helps a lot. Is there a particular reason you did not include the CDT and Greek tortoises?

CDT = CA Desert Tortoise.

Greeks tend to be a little more shy and reserved than hermanni or russian as a generality.
 

tomat0

New Member
Joined
Mar 30, 2017
Messages
15
Location (City and/or State)
SoCal - Zone 10a
CDT = CA Desert Tortoise.

Greeks tend to be a little more shy and reserved than hermanni or russian as a generality.
Ah, apologies. Misread that as a generalization!
Time to do some more homework on these. Excited!! :D
How have your SA Leopards fared thus far?
 

Tom

The Dog Trainer
10 Year Member!
Platinum Tortoise Club
Joined
Jan 9, 2010
Messages
63,265
Location (City and/or State)
Southern California
Ah, apologies. Misread that as a generalization!
Time to do some more homework on these. Excited!! :D
How have your SA Leopards fared thus far?

They are fantastic. If you have the space, I really can't think of a better tortoise. All things considered, they really can't be beat. If you live in a warm climate like ours, where they can live outside year round with a heated night box, they are a truly fantastic species. They get big, but not too big. One person can still move them around when needed. They are gorgeous. Not destructive. They don't burrow. They are grass eaters, so very easy to feed with grass hay or fresh grass clippings. Very outgoing, personable, curious and interactive. Hardy.

I really don't know how they could be better. I think they would be a problem for someone with a very small backyard or living in an apartment, or someone who lives in a climate where its frozen for 6 months every year. And don't try to keep two males together…

If I were to rate tortoises based solely on personality:
1. Sulcata. Indisputable champion. But they get really big and really destructive.
2. DT. But you can't get them outside of CA, AZ or NV, and they don't do well if you are too near the coast.
3. SA leopard.
4. Burmese Star. Platynota.
5. Russian/Hermanni.
6. Galapagos.
 
Last edited:

tomat0

New Member
Joined
Mar 30, 2017
Messages
15
Location (City and/or State)
SoCal - Zone 10a
They are fantastic. If you have the space, I really can't think of a better tortoise. All things considered, they really can't be beat. If you live in a warm climate like ours, where they can live outside year round with a heated night box, they are a truly fantastic species. They get big, but not too big. One person can still move them around when needed. They are gorgeous. Not destructive. They don't burrow. They are grass eaters, so very easy to feed with grass hay or fresh grass clippings. Very outgoing, personable, curious and interactive. Hardy.

I really don't know how they could be better. I think they would be a problem for someone with a very small backyard or living in an apartment, or someone who lives in a climate where its frozen for 6 months every year. And don't try to keep two males together…

If I were to rate tortoises based solely on personality:
1. Sulcata. Indisputable champion. But they get really big and really destructive.
2. DT. But you can't get them outside of CA, AZ or NV, and they don't do well if you are too near the coast.
3. SA leopard.
4. Burmese Star. Platynota.
5. Russian/Hermanni.
6. Galapagos.
It seems I always get drawn back to the SALs and CDTs!
I went through some gardening supplies and did a quick check for hay. Orchard and Bermuda bales are set to go. :)
Perusing some fruit trees today and saw some grapes (leaves). Need to find the specific variety I enjoy eating first! It was a very firm, black color, sweet and not astringent at all..
Opuntia, hibiscus and various others were available as well.

I won't lie. I think I caught the bug, if ya know what I mean. It's like when I had fish. Couldn't ever keep one tank. I had 2,000+ gallons at one point.
 

Tom

The Dog Trainer
10 Year Member!
Platinum Tortoise Club
Joined
Jan 9, 2010
Messages
63,265
Location (City and/or State)
Southern California
Perusing some fruit trees today and saw some grapes (leaves). Need to find the specific variety I enjoy eating first! It was a very firm, black color, sweet and not astringent at all..
Opuntia, hibiscus and various others were available as well.

Just be aware that anything grown at a commercial nursery will be infused with toxic pesticides. It is in the soil and the plants assimilate the toxins into their tissues are they grow. This ensures that the plants are pretty and bug free when they go to market. It takes a year for these toxins to dissipate if you get rid of the soil. Best to grow your own from seed, or take cuttings from long established mature plants.

Grape vines might be an exception since they are growing fruit intended for human consumption. Still, there is no way to know which pile of soil the worker used to plant the vine you are buying.
 

tomat0

New Member
Joined
Mar 30, 2017
Messages
15
Location (City and/or State)
SoCal - Zone 10a
Just be aware that anything grown at a commercial nursery will be infused with toxic pesticides. It is in the soil and the plants assimilate the toxins into their tissues are they grow. This ensures that the plants are pretty and bug free when they go to market. It takes a year for these toxins to dissipate if you get rid of the soil. Best to grow your own from seed, or take cuttings from long established mature plants.

Grape vines might be an exception since they are growing fruit intended for human consumption. Still, there is no way to know which pile of soil the worker used to plant the vine you are buying.
Most definitely, Tom. Thank you for the reminder. When possible, I like to obtain plants from private collections since I seek specific varieties.

Look what I found today! Wonder which species this is. :p
 

Attachments

  • 20170414_203640.jpg
    20170414_203640.jpg
    4.2 MB · Views: 16

tomat0

New Member
Joined
Mar 30, 2017
Messages
15
Location (City and/or State)
SoCal - Zone 10a
@Tom, I'm sure you've seen it but I just saw a video if Bob Bloom's collection of sulcatas. That male is HUGE!

The main area I'm allocating looks just like his pens. I'm planning to fill it with low growing plants (grasses, weeds) that they can forage and have edible stands (pineapple guava, opuntia, aloe, etc.) throughout. I could plant a couple trees as well but I'm afraid of root issues.
 

tomat0

New Member
Joined
Mar 30, 2017
Messages
15
Location (City and/or State)
SoCal - Zone 10a
I can, radiated tortoises. A little annoying if you want to buy from out of state, but instate, easier than a CDT. They are all good, just given Tom a poke in the ribs.
Haha, or plastron!

Would my best course of action be to adopt a desert tortoise, or are there other sources for a younger specimen?
 

Kapidolo Farms

Well-Known Member
10 Year Member!
Tortoise Club
Platinum Tortoise Club
Joined
Nov 7, 2012
Messages
5,172
Location (City and/or State)
South of Southern California, but not Mexico
Haha, or plastron!

Would my best course of action be to adopt a desert tortoise, or are there other sources for a younger specimen?
There are many places that can legally help you adopt a desert tortoise. Most turtle and tortoise clubs can. As for the size or age, well that's just a matter of timing, when you want to when one is available.
 

tomat0

New Member
Joined
Mar 30, 2017
Messages
15
Location (City and/or State)
SoCal - Zone 10a
There are many places that can legally help you adopt a desert tortoise. Most turtle and tortoise clubs can. As for the size or age, well that's just a matter of timing, when you want to when one is available.
Thanks for the tips, @Will.

Out of random conversation with a friend, I found she has had this tortoise for a some time. I asked her for a picture and here's what she sent:

Also, I was at a hibiscus society casually chatting about possibly growing some for tortoises. I think one of the members mistakenly thought I said I currently had tortoises because he gave me a bag of their blossoms!
 

Attachments

  • 20170421_133220[1].jpg
    20170421_133220[1].jpg
    824.4 KB · Views: 21
  • 20170423_184631[1].jpg
    20170423_184631[1].jpg
    4.3 MB · Views: 21
Top