What are we doing wrong?

[critterluvr89]

Hello all! My boyfriend and I have had water turtles for most of our lives and have wanted to acquire tortoises. We had spent several months reading and getting ready for our baby sulcata's. We have a 30 gallon long tank, Cyprus bedding, natural wooden hid log, large shallow water dish, food bowl. For lighting/heat we have the Power Sun 3 in 1 bulb 100W and night red heat bulb 100w. Temps reach 80-83 all day and are having a little difficulty reaching humidity levels above 30. We have had our 2 babies for roughly 2 weeks and both were active, eating fresh greens but not touching the pelleted tortoise food. We added calcium powder once a week and soaked them in warm shallow water every other day. We have been very careful to be very clean before and after handling.
After the first week both tortoises seem to decline in health and our one unfortunately passed away the other day
and the other little fella is having puffy grey eyes and not alot of activity. I am getting some terramycin ointment for the eye issues today per referral. We feel terrible that we are not doing something right after all the research we had done. This site has been the most helpful and we are hoping some members may have some suggestions! I can provide photos if needed! Thank you!

 

[wellington]

They must be able to bask under a light that is 95-100 temps. The aquarium is too small for two hatchlings and two sulcatas can not live together for very long. Sorry to hear you already lost one. Get things changed up, read the caresheets under the sulcata section. Cover the aquarium to get humidity up. Temps should be no lower day and night then 80 with a humidity of 80% and basking spot of the 95-100

 

[saginawhxc]

Welcome to the forum. I'm sorry you found us under such dire circumstances. Wellington already covered the most pertinent information that jumped out at me.

Reading these three threads again are the best thing I can think of telling you. These are by far the best thing I have ever read on raising a young sulcata.

Raising a healthy sulcata or leopard
http://www.tortoiseforum.org/index.php?threads/79895/

Diet
http://www.tortoiseforum.org/index.php?threads/76744/

Beginner's Mistakes
http://www.tortoiseforum.org/index.php?threads/45180/

 

[Tom]

Hello all! My boyfriend and I have had water turtles for most of our lives and have wanted to acquire tortoises. We had spent several months reading and getting ready for our baby sulcata's. We have a 30 gallon long tank, Cyprus bedding, natural wooden hid log, large shallow water dish, food bowl. For lighting/heat we have the Power Sun 3 in 1 bulb 100W and night red heat bulb 100w. Temps reach 80-83 all day and are having a little difficulty reaching humidity levels above 30. We have had our 2 babies for roughly 2 weeks and both were active, eating fresh greens but not touching the pelleted tortoise food. We added calcium powder once a week and soaked them in warm shallow water every other day. We have been very careful to be very clean before and after handling.
After the first week both tortoises seem to decline in health and our one unfortunately passed away the other day
and the other little fella is having puffy grey eyes and not alot of activity. I am getting some terramycin ointment for the eye issues today per referral. We feel terrible that we are not doing something right after all the research we had done. This site has been the most helpful and we are hoping some members may have some suggestions! I can provide photos if needed! Thank you!

Hello and welcome.

Sorry you found us under these circumstances. Most of what is written and promoted for this species out in the world is wrong and its based on old incorrect assumption about how they live in the wild. As a result, "research" usually leaves people either frustrated by conflicting info, or it leads them down a path of incorrect info. Sadly, it took me decades of mistakes, trial and error, and experimentation to learn all the things that are there for you in the like that saginawhxc posted for you.

Here is what I see immediately from your post:
1. Pairs don't usually work. Goups can be okay while they are juveniles, but not pairs. This is the first indication that someone has steered you the wrong way.
2. Red bulbs shouldn't be used. They make the whole world look red, it messes with their circadian rhythms, and it sometimes hampers their appetite, or makes them eat things they shouldn't. You'll need a ceramic heating element set on a thermostat to maintain ambient temps above 80 day and night.
3. I don't like cypress mulch for babies. Its smelly, swampy and the piece are too large, jagged and not uniform. Orchid bark works better.
4. 20 Gallons is too small. I prefer a 40 as a minimum, but I usually use a 100 for hatchlings.
5. Where is the temperature 80-83? There are four temps to know and maintain: Warm side, cools side, basking area (directly under the bulb0, and over night low. Are you using one of those stick on dial type thermometers? Those aren't reliable or accurate, and they only tell you the temp where you stick them. You need 3 or 4 elements for heating and lighting, and all of this is explained in the care sheet.
6. They should be soaked daily when they are babies. I don't start skipping occasional days until they are over 100 grams.
7. What type of pellets are you offering? There are many on the market. Some better than others, but most need to be soaked and I like to mix them with greens before feeding.
8. Another thing that might be a factor in your situation is that most breeders follow the old, incorrect, desert info and they do not start these babies correctly. Where did you get them? How often did the breeder soak them?

Ask questions and make us explain anything here that doesn't make sense to you. We will help you through this.

 

[critterluvr89]

Thanks very much for the responses, we really appreciate it! Our enclosure is 36X18x12 for now and understand we will be needing a larger one.
In regards to heating, the ceramic heat emitter would be the way to go for the evenings and to help bring our day time temps up? We purchased Rep-Cal tortoise pellets and wet them and mix in with the greens. Yes, we have temp gauge that suctions to the side of the tank. We unfortunately purchased the babies at a reptile show who stated they were from a local breeder within the same state. Under the hide log is safe to place moss to amp up my humidity levels? We are confident we will get it right for our little guy!

 

[TammyJ]

All the very best of luck, just follow the care sheets and advice given here!

 

[critterluvr89]

From yesterday to today, he has now developed yellow sores on his body? Back of the neck, under the neck and ears. Poor little guy... :/

 

[wellington]

From yesterday to today, he has now developed yellow sores on his body? Back of the neck, under the neck and ears. Poor little guy... :/

That's weird. The moss will be fine to add. However, chop it up small so it can't get tangled around its neck or legs or if eaten can't get tangled around anything on the inside. Not sure what the sores/spots are. What have you changed so far?
Maybe @Yvonne G knows what they are or caused from.

 

[SarahChelonoidis]

I've never seen anything like that. Have @Will or @deadheadvet?

 

[cmacusa3]

Are you sure that's a Sulcata? I don't think it is.

 

[SarahChelonoidis]

Are you sure that's a Sulcata?

Good catch - looks like a Gopherus sp.

A desert tortoise hatchling was posted about last month with similar sores, actually http://www.tortoiseforum.org/threads/baby-tortois-not-eating-yellow-crusty-bumps-help.152097/

 

[critterluvr89]

oh boy! Well, I might make a diluted solution of betadine and cotton swab the areas. The only change is added moss this evening after I noticed the bumps.

 

[critterluvr89]

oh boy! Well, I might make a diluted solution of betadine and cotton swab the areas. The only change is added moss this evening after I noticed the bumps.

Could be possibly be a desert tortoise?

 

[cmacusa3]

Could be possibly be a desert tortoise?

Yes that's what I think it is.

 

[SarahChelonoidis]

Could be possibly be a desert tortoise?

Yes it is. Where did you get this tortoise?

 

[critterluvr89]

Wow... We got 2 babies at a reptile expo just a few weeks ago! I do not have the vendor info but I can message the expo to find further info. The other tortoise was a little larger and much lighter in color and looked more like a sulcata then this little guy. I guess we got taken advantage of unfortunately!

 

[SarahChelonoidis]

It is illegal to sell them so hopefully you did not pay for them.

 

[cmacusa3]

Wow... We got 2 babies at a reptile expo just a few weeks ago! I do not have the vendor info but I can message the expo to find further info. The other tortoise was a little larger and much lighter in color and looked more like a sulcata then this little guy. I guess we got taken advantage of unfortunately!

I would do some research on this.

 

[Tom]

Oh boy…

Things just got weird…

I've seen lesions like that in tortoises that were infected with cryptosporidium. The lesions were actually a secondary infection when we swabbed and cultured them.

If it is crypto, it is highly contagious, usually deadly, and there is no cure and no treatment. It can only be diagnosed with an expensive necropsy after the animal is dead.

Be extremely careful that there is no cross contamination with that tortoise and anything it has had contact with and any other reptile. The disease can spread even from flies hopping from one enclosure to the next.

When this one passes, I would throw away everything that has any contact with either tortoise and start over. Anything that can't be town away should be disinfected with a 10-20% ammonia solution. Encysted crypto can survive up to 9 months in the environment with no host and bleach won't kill it. Ammonia will.

 

[critterluvr89]

We sadly did pay for this tortoise! If I was more informed we would NOT of purchased this baby. We had NO idea that this was an illegal species to sell or own due to our lack of exposure to tortoises. I have reached out to the venue where we purchased the babies. We feel so bad! We added moss and extra light source making our basking area at 90 degrees. There arent any reptile specialists in the area which seem to be a rarity in itself anyway! I will continue to use a diluted betadine solution to swab the infected areas to keep the little guy comfortable. Thank you all again for your help!