Update/Questions about Ginger

[GingerLove]

Hi guys! Just wanted to give a brief overview of Ginger to see if anyone had any suggestions...
Ginger has been pretty healthy... but since Christmas, she has been acting differently. I'm not sure if it's bad behavior or just new behavior.
She sleeps more often. (Maybe because she wants to hibernate?)
She only eats about twice a week with a few nibbles of grass outside. (I offer her food every day).
When I am soaking her, she starts to fall asleep. She used to be active in the tub, not sleepy!
She mostly urinates, rarely having a bowl movement, though she never seems constipated as she is not gaining weight, neither is she pushing hard to get anything out.
She has lost 1 ounce in the process of five months.
She is still active as always when outside, showing no signs of sickness and moving with agility. (As much as a tortoise can.)
So is this normal behavior for the winter? I haven't changed anything recently. The light I bought her still emits heat and it is no where near it's expiration. I don't have a way to measure the UV rays, however. She gets outside almost every day and is soaked at least twice a week. She eats a variety of kale, broccoli, carrots, cucumber, zucchini, and squash. (Throughout the week, I try to change it up.) Her bedding is coconut coir.
She's still a lovable little dweeb like always. Would appreciate any advice!

 

[Grandpa Turtle 144]

Your tort looks to be a Russian tort . Did you read our Russian care posts ? Did you find that diet on here that your feeding your tort ?

 

[GingerLove]

Your tort looks to be a Russian tort . Did you read our Russian care posts ? Did you find that diet on here that your feeding your tort ?

Thank you! Yes, I've done all of that. I should probably go and double check the diet section, though! I just wondered if this is normal behavior for a Russian in the winter? What do you think about her not eating or having a BM in so long?

 

[Pearly]

Hi guys! Just wanted to give a brief overview of Ginger to see if anyone had any suggestions...
Ginger has been pretty healthy... but since Christmas, she has been acting differently. I'm not sure if it's bad behavior or just new behavior.
She sleeps more often. (Maybe because she wants to hibernate?)
She only eats about twice a week with a few nibbles of grass outside. (I offer her food every day).
When I am soaking her, she starts to fall asleep. She used to be active in the tub, not sleepy!
She mostly urinates, rarely having a bowl movement, though she never seems constipated as she is not gaining weight, neither is she pushing hard to get anything out.
She has lost 1 ounce in the process of five months.
She is still active as always when outside, showing no signs of sickness and moving with agility. (As much as a tortoise can.)
So is this normal behavior for the winter? I haven't changed anything recently. The light I bought her still emits heat and it is no where near it's expiration. I don't have a way to measure the UV rays, however. She gets outside almost every day and is soaked at least twice a week. She eats a variety of kale, broccoli, carrots, cucumber, zucchini, and squash. (Throughout the week, I try to change it up.) Her bedding is coconut coir. View attachment 202840
She's still a lovable little dweeb like always. Would appreciate any advice!

I know you've been active on this forum and likely read most of the info needed on keeping your tort species. I think at some point Joe's Mum said somewhere that some torts just slow down in winter even if they are not hibernating. Aside from making sure temps (wherever Ginger spends her time), and humidity are as should be and lights/heaters are working, as are your instruments measuring temps... One thing that stood out in your post was Ginger's diet. I'd review Tom's russian tort care sheets and go over EVERYTHING carefully, and do self assessment of my own husbandry practices. Ginger needs more green weeds and less veggies. How about checking your local produce depts for some dandellion greens, escarole, endive, raddicchio, cactus pads (if you have ethnic section it would be with Mexican foods), watercres, collard greens, mustard and turnip greens... how about salad flowers (packaged pansies, snapdragons, etc) that people put in their funky creative salads... grape leaves, roses (flowers and leaves).... there is a whole long list of the "OK plants" and weeds... like plantain... just be sure if you pick some up the place you harvest is sure to not have been treated with any chemicals. I don't think sleeping during bath is "normal" and I'd bump up Ginger's temps to lows of 80F, no lower, even the overnight temps. I'd also up the soaking/feeding (using greens from "russian tort list") to daily. I do not like the weigh loss. @Yvonne G, @Tom: Guys would you please chime in?

 

[GingerLove]

I know you've been active on this forum and likely read most of the info needed on keeping your tort species. I think at some point Joe's Mum said somewhere that some torts just slow down in winter even if they are not hibernating. Aside from making sure temps (wherever Ginger spends her time), and humidity are as should be and lights/heaters are working, as are your instruments measuring temps... One thing that stood out in your post was Ginger's diet. I'd review Tom's russian tort care sheets and go over EVERYTHING carefully, and do self assessment of my own husbandry practices. Ginger needs more green weeds and less veggies. How about checking your local produce depts for some dandellion greens, escarole, endive, raddicchio, cactus pads (if you have ethnic section it would be with Mexican foods), watercres, collard greens, mustard and turnip greens... how about salad flowers (packaged pansies, snapdragons, etc) that people put in their funky creative salads... grape leaves, roses (flowers and leaves).... there is a whole long list of the "OK plants" and weeds... like plantain... just be sure if you pick some up the place you harvest is sure to not have been treated with any chemicals. I don't think sleeping during bath is "normal" and I'd bump up Ginger's temps to lows of 80F, no lower, even the overnight temps. I'd also up the soaking/feeding (using greens from "russian tort list") to daily. I do not like the weigh loss. @Yvonne G, @Tom: Guys would you please chime in?

Thank you so much!!! I'll look into these other greens. I never know where to find them, so they will be with Mexican foods? I'll go and reread that diet section by Tom. I'm just not liking that she sleeps in her bath. I've gotten nervous so I put my hand in and move her back and forth to keep her awake. Then when I put her outside she's perky as usually. I really appreciate the list of foods to feed. Hopefully they won't be too much more expensive.

 

[GingerLove]

This is what I have so far on my new grocery list...
Russian tortoise food:
Endive
Escarole
Carrot tops
Cilantro
Mustard leaves
Turnip leaves
Collard greens
Grape leaves
Mulberry leaves
Hibiscus leaves
Spineless cactus pads

I also have a little fear that I would like to mention. Do you think she could have worms or something?? That's why she's not moving? She used to poop all the time and nothing was peculiar about it. I admit I shouldn't have gotten her from a pet store, but now that I have her, I want to give her the best life possible. She's been with me for almost two years this July.
And I also want to call @ZEROPILOT to hear your ideas about Ginger sleeping in the tub.
I'm seriously considering getting a new light even though it still emits heat. I'm afraid it might have stopped with the UV and I have no way of telling except by Ginger's behavior.

 

[GingerLove]

Store Price

$2.98
Nature's Green Greens Trio Collard, Mustard & Turnip...
YESS!!

 

[Alexio]

This is what I have so far on my new grocery list...
Russian tortoise food:
Endive
Escarole
Carrot tops
Cilantro
Mustard leaves
Turnip leaves
Collard greens
Grape leaves
Mulberry leaves
Hibiscus leaves
Spineless cactus pads

I also have a little fear that I would like to mention. Do you think she could have worms or something?? That's why she's not moving? She used to poop all the time and nothing was peculiar about it. I admit I shouldn't have gotten her from a pet store, but now that I have her, I want to give her the best life possible. She's been with me for almost two years this July.
And I also want to call @ZEROPILOT to hear your ideas about Ginger sleeping in the tub.
I'm seriously considering getting a new light even though it still emits heat. I'm afraid it might have stopped with the UV and I have no way of telling except by Ginger's behavior.

If she is getting outside every day or every other day for a few hours she should be getting her uvb needs met there? If the bulb is over a year old it is probably not putting out good uvb anymore.
What part of the country do you live in?
If she does go outside a lot that also increases the chances of parasites ot worms. When one of my Russians had worms last year that was how it started for her, she did not eat for about a month, which is what tipped me off.

 

[GingerLove]

If she is getting outside every day or every other day for a few hours she should be getting her uvb needs met there? If the bulb is over a year old it is probably not putting out good uvb anymore.
What part of the country do you live in?
If she does go outside a lot that also increases the chances of parasites ot worms. When one of my Russians had worms last year that was how it started for her, she did not eat for about a month, which is what tipped me off.

I live in Florida. She goes outside every other day (about) for forty-five minutes or so. And there is plenty of UV out there, but I wasn't sure if it would be enough. Her bulb is only four months old and it's supposed to last a year. Do you think she could have gotten worms outside eating grass? is she getting enough UV? We have a swamp reserve just outside the fence. I don't know if that means anything. Thanks so much for your help.
And what did you do for your tortoise when she had worms? Did she die???

 

[ZEROPILOT]

Hello. I know nothing (almost) about what would be normal for a Russian tortoise. But you have said that she/he is acting differently. So, it would come down to something has changed.
Our weather has changed. It got cool. Almost cold. My tortoises are much less active also.
A heavy worm infestation would usually be seen by finding worms in the poop. Sometimes they are pretty large and sometimes they look like tiny threads. But "worms" are pretty common and a healthy tortoise can live with them just fine. In fact, I bought myself a fancy microscope from the flea market and In some very unscientific research, I've found parasitic eggs in quite A few poo samples. (There are photos of them online to compare to) And my tortoises are specimens of health!
Actually, treating for worms, as I've HAD to just once, will absolutely stop a tortoise from eating in some cases. It's a poison that kills the parasites and it seems to weaken the tortoise for a short period.
Strangely enough (To me) some of the worms came out dead in bunches in the poop. But other tortoises seemed to just absorb them and none ever passed.
In every case, the tortoise with
a seriously high number of worms got lighter. Lighter and runny, foul poop.

 

[ZEROPILOT]

Hopefully with the warmer weather, your Russian will perk up.
Have you tried giving him something exciting? Have you fed Mazuri? I've found certain foods that mine almost can never resist. As long as they eat. Even stuff that is not ideal, they are taking in nutrition and that with drinking water often kickstarts "normal" behavior.

 

[GingerLove]

Hopefully with the warmer weather, your Russian will perk up.
Have you tried giving him something exciting? Have you fed Mazuri? I've found certain foods that mine almost can never resist. As long as they eat. Even stuff that is not ideal, they are taking in nutrition and that with drinking water often kickstarts "normal" behavior.

No, I haven't actually tried mazuri. I bought some pellets from a pet store that said they had mazuri in them, and she absolutely HATED them. I never tried it again. But maybe I will now. I just went out and bought endives and cilantro to try to get her to eat.
And just as I thought, even if you don't know about Russian tortoises, you have some excellent ideas!!!!! Thank you so much and that is super encouraging. I was having a slight panic attack.

 

[Pearly]

Crap! I had all kinds of stuff typed up for you and my 9.5yr old who's sick now and staying at home wanted something, and it seems I LOST THE WHOLE THING!!!! Well, anyway: whatever produce you buy, look for the bulk sales, where you can pick up just small handfulls as it goes bad pretty quickly and your tortie won't be eating enough of it to keep your stock fresh. In Florida you may have access to the hibiscus, mulberry and grape leaves which are great tort food just be sure you harvest them from plants that don't get sprayed with stuff, or fed systemic pesticides. Same goes for picking dandelions and grass. If you are not 100% sure that place is not treated with chemicals stay away from it. If you have garden you can plant your own hibiscus and grape vine, opuntia (cactus), dandelions and some tortoise mix seeds, in couple yrs you can have abundance of fresh organic tort food. As for cactus pads, many big supermarkets have them in produce, or look for small mexican markets, they may have some good produce for Ginger. If you have Whole Foods nearby they should have most of the greens I have listed in prior post, plus microgreens, maybe edible flowers, but should definitely have dandellion greens, here i get mine at Sprouts- Farmer's Market for 1.99... or 2.99$ per bunch. In case you haven't seen me post this old thread here it is again, open it up, it's for the RF torts but you can make adjustments. The point of it was to give folks some ideas of what may work in getting a baby tort or sick tort to eat. Anyway check it out and maybe you find few tips for your Ginger here. http://www.tortoiseforum.org/index.php?threads/Pearly's-tips-to-feed-picky-eater.139381/ last summer I had gone to a park where I had found bunch of plantain "Texas version" of it. I went around the area where it looked like it was wild and unattended and gently pulled couple dozen of the whole plants and planted them in my garden pots and used for planting in my babies' terrarium. None of them performed well but I had let them all go to seed and drop seed on the ground. Guess what? The other day I noticed beautiful healthy and robust young plantain plants coming up! And that's a great tort food! Same with dandelions, you can collect seeds and plant in pots. As for Ginger falling asleep in bath.... no, I don't like it either. Myself after making sure my tort was being kept warm enough (80F and above day and night, no nighttime temp drops) I'd probably be calling my herp vet. But please do all the other things first. Make sure she is WARM ENOUGH

 

[GingerLove]

Crap! I had all kinds of stuff typed up for you and my 9.5yr old who's sick now and staying at home wanted something, and it seems I LOST THE WHOLE THING!!!! Well, anyway: whatever produce you buy, look for the bulk sales, where you can pick up just small handfulls as it goes bad pretty quickly and your tortie won't be eating enough of it to keep your stock fresh. In Florida you may have access to the hibiscus, mulberry and grape leaves which are great tort food just be sure you harvest them from plants that don't get sprayed with stuff, or fed systemic pesticides. Same goes for picking dandelions and grass. If you are not 100% sure that place is not treated with chemicals stay away from it. If you have garden you can plant your own hibiscus and grape vine, opuntia (cactus), dandelions and some tortoise mix seeds, in couple yrs you can have abundance of fresh organic tort food. As for cactus pads, many big supermarkets have them in produce, or look for small mexican markets, they may have some good produce for Ginger. If you have Whole Foods nearby they should have most of the greens I have listed in prior post, plus microgreens, maybe edible flowers, but should definitely have dandellion greens, here i get mine at Sprouts- Farmer's Market for 1.99... or 2.99$ per bunch. In case you haven't seen me post this old thread here it is again, open it up, it's for the RF torts but you can make adjustments. The point of it was to give folks some ideas of what may work in getting a baby tort or sick tort to eat. Anyway check it out and maybe you find few tips for your Ginger here. http://www.tortoiseforum.org/index.php?threads/Pearly's-tips-to-feed-picky-eater.139381/ last summer I had gone to a park where I had found bunch of plantain "Texas version" of it. I went around the area where it looked like it was wild and unattended and gently pulled couple dozen of the whole plants and planted them in my garden pots and used for planting in my babies' terrarium. None of them performed well but I had let them all go to seed and drop seed on the ground. Guess what? The other day I noticed beautiful healthy and robust young plantain plants coming up! And that's a great tort food! Same with dandelions, you can collect seeds and plant in pots. As for Ginger falling asleep in bath.... no, I don't like it either. Myself after making sure my tort was being kept warm enough (80F and above day and night, no nighttime temp drops) I'd probably be calling my herp vet. But please do all the other things first. Make sure she is WARM ENOUGH

Oh my gosh, thank you so much @Pearly !! This is all super helpful!!!! You are the best!!! I hope your kid feels better. (And I understand the anger, trust me, I've lost stuff before)
Ginger is definitely warm enough in the day, but at night sometimes it gets in the seventies. I tried giving her a bath with a bit colder water instead of super warm, and she actually stayed awake for the whole thing today. I don't want to freeze her to death (It was still lukewarm), but I also am afraid I was making it too hot for her when she was falling asleep. She ate a teensy bit of cilantro today and tons and tons of grass outside! However, she still hasn't had a BM.
Thank you so much for the link to the other thread. I don't believe I've read it before. i'm going to look over it.

 

[Pearly]

Oh my gosh, thank you so much @Pearly !! This is all super helpful!!!! You are the best!!! I hope your kid feels better. (And I understand the anger, trust me, I've lost stuff before)
Ginger is definitely warm enough in the day, but at night sometimes it gets in the seventies. I tried giving her a bath with a bit colder water instead of super warm, and she actually stayed awake for the whole thing today. I don't want to freeze her to death (It was still lukewarm), but I also am afraid I was making it too hot for her when she was falling asleep. She ate a teensy bit of cilantro today and tons and tons of grass outside! However, she still hasn't had a BM.
Thank you so much for the link to the other thread. I don't believe I've read it before. i'm going to look over it.

I keep track of my bath water temps by infrared temp gun like this and water between 95 and about 102-103F and definitely would rather keep the water temps on warm side. When using gun thermometer you can also check your torts carapace temp. After a while you have a pretty good idea of how things work

 

[GingerLove]

Hey, just wanted to update everyone who's been so kind to help me!
She's had her first poopy today in FOREVER!!!! It was hard to tell the consistency (to check if she has worms) as she was in the water when she pooped, but it looked pretty normal. Sadly, however, she still refuses to eat breakfast every morning. She won't eat the cilantro or endives which are rotting quickly in the refrigerator. Next I'm going to try to get her mazuri upon @Pearly 's suggestion. However, she still eats like a pig outside.
As for sleeping in the tub, I still move her about a bit when she's in there to keep her awake. I am beginning to wonder if she really falls asleep in the tub, or if the water simply bugs her eyes. She dirties the water the minute I put her in the tub because she has so much dirt on her shell from the coconut coir, and sometimes it flushes into her eyes. I always get it out, but it seems to be a tad painful for her. Maybe I'll rinse her off first and then put her in the tub. Anyways, that you all for your suggestions!
Ginger says she's doing a little better every day. Here's a pic for you!

 

[Pearly]

Hey, just wanted to update everyone who's been so kind to help me!
She's had her first poopy today in FOREVER!!!! It was hard to tell the consistency (to check if she has worms) as she was in the water when she pooped, but it looked pretty normal. Sadly, however, she still refuses to eat breakfast every morning. She won't eat the cilantro or endives which are rotting quickly in the refrigerator. Next I'm going to try to get her mazuri upon @Pearly 's suggestion. However, she still eats like a pig outside.
As for sleeping in the tub, I still move her about a bit when she's in there to keep her awake. I am beginning to wonder if she really falls asleep in the tub, or if the water simply bugs her eyes. She dirties the water the minute I put her in the tub because she has so much dirt on her shell from the coconut coir, and sometimes it flushes into her eyes. I always get it out, but it seems to be a tad painful for her. Maybe I'll rinse her off first and then put her in the tub. Anyways, that you all for your suggestions!
Ginger says she's doing a little better every day. Here's a pic for you!View attachment 203189 View attachment 203190

How cute with her coffee and paper!!!! Love it!!!

 

[GingerLove]

How cute with her coffee and paper!!!! Love it!!!

Thanks! Wawa gives out free coffee samples in those tiny little cups. Thought it was just her size!

 

[GingerLove]

@Pearly , have you tried this? Is it any good?

 

[GingerLove]

Actually this one looks cheaper. Is this the same kind in your old thread?
Zilla Reptile Food Land Turtle & Tortoise Fortified, 6.5-Ounce