Torts drinking trough cloaca ???

[Bee62]

Hello,

at first, please don`t laugh ..... too much .... !
It sounds like a fairytail to me too, and I am sure that it is one.
In a German tortoise forum I have been told yesterday, that tortoises can drink tiny amounts of water trough their cloak ! And because of that it is very bad for them when they are soaked daily ....They can loose too much of their good bacterias because of too much water in their intestinal and get sick because of this.
What should I say ? I am amused and sad at the same time, because of this thinking many tortoises are kept to dry.
Members of this German forum told me that I harm my sulcata babies seriously when I soak them every day......


So glad I`ve found TFO....


Sabine

 

[tortdad]

You can start by telling them politely that we have many picture as examples of healthy torts that are soaked daily. Link them to the care sheets and show them some pics.

If you can convince just one person to change their thinking then you've done well.

 

[Bee62]

You can start by telling them politely that we have many picture as examples of healthy torts that are soaked daily. Link them to the care sheets and show them some pics.

If you can convince just one person to change their thinking then you've done well.

I will try.... ( to convince .... ).

 

[Yvonne G]

There is a species of water turtle in Australia that takes in water through their cloaca, but that's the only one. Tortoises do not drink through their cloaca. However, NUTRIENTS can be ABSORBED through the thin skin on the throat and around the cloaca.

 

[Bee62]

Thank you Yvonne.
What you explain make sense and I believe it. All other is a fairytale...
There are so many false informations about tortoises in the heads of people....
There is much hard work to convince them to a better treatment.

 

[Tom]

There is much debate about this, and I know of no scientific study that answers the question one way or the other. I believe, based on personal experience and anecdotal evidence from other keepers that tortoises can absorb water and nutrients through their cloaca. Can't prove it though.

What I can tell you with 100% certainty is that daily soaks do NOT harm them in any way and the practice has no effect on their intestinal bacteria. In fact, quite the contrary, daily soaks help them grow more smoothly and keep them hydrated and healthy. Daily soaks also simulate the wet conditions that babies encounter during the rainy monsoon season that they hatch into in the wild. If daily soaking did any harm, I would literally have thousands of sick or dead babies over all these years. Instead, I have the opposite. Nothing but good health and thriving babies.

 

[Bee62]

Thank you Tom for your answer and for not being tired always "praying" the same ( right ) care for baby sulcatas.
I am the same opinion as you, but how can we get the right thinking in heads of people who believe that daily soaks harm tortoises ?
I could try to post the links to the sulcata care sheets of this forum but I don`t know if it is allowed in the German forum.
In this forum I began to "pray" as you for the right treatment of those tortoises, but the members don`t believe me. It is not easy to tear down walls that have been manifested !

 

[Tom]

Thank you Tom for your answer and for not being tired always "praying" the same ( right ) care for baby sulcatas.
I am the same opinion as you, but how can we get the right thinking in heads of people who believe that daily soaks harm tortoises ?
I could try to post the links to the sulcata care sheets of this forum but I don`t know if it is allowed in the German forum.
In this forum I began to "pray" as you for the right treatment of those tortoises, but the members don`t believe me. It is not easy to tear down walls that have been manifested !

I've been fighting those walls for years. My entry into this forum and "new" info was met with this same sort of resistance just a few years ago. I argued a lot. People refused to be swayed. I decided it was better to demonstrate than talk about it and challenged my opposition to "put up or shut up". I put up, and they shut up in the end, because they could no longer argue with first hand proof of my success using the techniques that they tried to hard to decry.

This thread was the result:
http://www.tortoiseforum.org/threads/the-end-of-pyramiding.15137/

 

[Kapidolo Farms]

http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/jez.1055/abstract

Butt (haha) they do breath through the cloaca

http://www.jstor.org/stable/1447197?seq=1#page_scan_tab_contents

 

[Big Charlie]

This reminds me of a Southpark episode...

 

[Alicia Hoogstra]

I'm so glad you continued your information and never gave up! I know my babies and I appreciate you soooo much!

 

[Bluemonster107]

I was told on a facebook forum yesterday ... after I was just telling someone what i did to keep my humidity around 80%+ in my young sulcata enclosure... and of course someone chimed in "are you sure you have a sulcata.... you know those are dessert tortoises... right?".....
If it wasn't for this Forum I too..... would have all the same misconceptions about the little guys!!!
I ignored the comment since that wasn't what was being discussed.... but yeah! im going to just start linking to the 'sticky' care sheet! good idea!! educate the masses!! hahaha

 

[Tom]

... and of course someone chimed in "are you sure you have a sulcata.... you know those are dessert tortoises... right?".....

See… I can't let that lie… I would have to chime in and correct that falsehood. They come from grasslands and forrest edges. NOT deserts. The Sahara Desert is just to the North of them and they do NOT occur there. It takes a substantial amount of annual rainfall to sustain grasslands and forests, right?

Of course then a big discussion/argument would ensue and I would likely be asked to leave the group.

I still think posting results and showing off a healthy, thriving, growing baby tortoise might still be the best counter argument.

 

[Anyfoot]

Hello,

at first, please don`t laugh ..... too much .... !
It sounds like a fairytail to me too, and I am sure that it is one.
In a German tortoise forum I have been told yesterday, that tortoises can drink tiny amounts of water trough their cloak ! And because of that it is very bad for them when they are soaked daily ....They can loose too much of their good bacterias because of too much water in their intestinal and get sick because of this.
What should I say ? I am amused and sad at the same time, because of this thinking many tortoises are kept to dry.
Members of this German forum told me that I harm my sulcata babies seriously when I soak them every day......


So glad I`ve found TFO....


Sabine

There are a lot of tortoise enthusiasts out there that are fully aware of the wet technique for raising tortoises and are adamant it's not the way to go. In some cases I'm not even talking about soaking, but just the humidity levels.
Ask the question.
Can you show me some tortoises you raised from the egg?

 

[Bee62]

I've been fighting those walls for years. My entry into this forum and "new" info was met with this same sort of resistance just a few years ago. I argued a lot. People refused to be swayed. I decided it was better to demonstrate than talk about it and challenged my opposition to "put up or shut up". I put up, and they shut up in the end, because they could no longer argue with first hand proof of my success using the techniques that they tried to hard to decry.

This thread was the result:
http://www.tortoiseforum.org/threads/the-end-of-pyramiding.15137/

Hello Tom,

with your help I will put up like you ! It is not my way to shut up ....
I am allowed from the MOD of the German tortoise forum to set the links to your thread and to the sulcata care sheets. That is a little succsess I think.
I hope your experience spread and grow in the heads of many german sulcata owners.
Thank you for your help ! Your experience can make it easier for me to convince people.
Here is the link to my thread in the german tort forum if someone is interested:
http://www.testudo-forum.de/wbb/index.php?page=Thread&postID=258679#post258679http://www.testudo-forum.de/wbb/index.php?page=Thread&postID=258679#post258679
http://www.testudo-forum.de/wbb/index.php?page=Thread&postID=258679#post258679
@all You guys are the best ! Thank`s for your answers. I love to be here at TFO.

 

[Tom]

Most people have the wrong idea because of incorrect assumptions about how and where sulcatas live that were made decades ago, and continue to be repeated to this day. Once a person takes the time to explain the whole rainy season thing, and living underground thing, and the fact that weather stations record conditions 2 meters above the surface, most people begin to understand why the warm/humid thing works so well, and the dry way doesn't. They begin to understand that warm, humid and well hydrated is actually "natural" and dry desert conditions are very "un-natural", instead of the reverse which is a common misconception.

Showing the results only serves to further prove the theory.

 

[Fredkas]

Send them my sulcata growth thread and pictures. Hell, i soaks my sulcata twice daily. More than an hour in the morning (i just left him there while i am busy), and more than half hour at evening. 90% humidity. I think mine is extreme. . Healthy, look at his weight gain.

 

[Bee62]

Send them my sulcata growth thread and pictures. Hell, i soaks my sulcata twice daily. More than an hour in the morning (i just left him there while i am busy), and more than half hour at evening. 90% humidity. I think mine is extreme. . Healthy, look at his weight gain.

Hey, @Fredkas, are you sure that you have a tortoise and no turtle .... ?

Yes, yours is extreme ! Yesterday I read your thread about Toro and how he gains in weight. It is amazing ! The bigger they grow and the more they can eat the faster they grow and gain in weight !
Your Toro is "exploding" in weight.... What do you put into your soaking water ..... ?

In Germany there is so much misunderstanding how to treat a growing sulcata. I am running against walls, but these walls will not hurt me. I keep going on praying @toms advices for the health of sulcata baby tortoises kept in Germany.
If this saves some lives of these torts it`ll be worth being sometimes "the bad one" for spreading out my opinion.
I am going to build a new, own sulcata homepage where I can tell people how these species should be kept.

 

[Link]

I just wonder how many of those dry tortoises have bowl issues and constipation. Any grazing animal needs copious amounts of water to assist with digestion and bowl movements due to the high fiber content in the diet. From cows to elephants they require lots of water. Now if our tortoises had diarrhea excrement then there would be concerns.

 

[Bee62]

I just wonder how many of those dry tortoises have bowl issues and constipation. Any grazing animal needs copious amounts of water to assist with digestion and bowl movements due to the high fiber content in the diet. From cows to elephants they require lots of water. Now if our tortoises had diarrhea excrement then there would be concerns.

I think it is probably not constipation that kills dehydrated tortoises but bladder stones and the damage of the kidneys if the tortoise is kept dry within a longer time.