The sickness/illness/unwellness thread

[Livingstone]

Good afternoon tortoise forum, Sulcata owners specifically.

Everyday I browse the sulcata threads, and it always amazes me just how me owners/keepers post questioning the behavior of their tortoise in relation to their health. Normally it starts out, my tortoise isn’t moving, or isn’t eating, or is doing something abnormal but I don’t know if I should be worried.

For the experienced owners who have been thru the rough patches with various success rates, we now know what it is we are looking for in a healthy tortoise. What I hope this post will achieve is the documentation of symptoms, their cause, and solution. I have looked thru the posts and how-to’s, I have not seen a thread that specifically lists what the owner sees and the most likely cause or resolution.

As with all sick animals the progression of the sickness would require different levels of treatment, if this could serve as a guide for what needed to be done depending on severity of symptoms, I think it would help the new owners to treat the problem(s) more effectively.

An example would be:

Upper respiratory infection:

* warning indicator: tired animal sleeps a lot, not interested in food. Solution: raise temps, reduce handling, warm water vita sol/baby food soaks.

*Onset: same as above but bubbles from nose. Solution: Same as above but make a vet appointment, anti-biotics needed.

*Full blown infection: Same as above but with open mouth breathing and wheezing, eyes closed, no movement. Solution: STOP WHAT YOU ARE DOING, AND RUSH ANIMAL TO VET!!!

If we could just have people post like this, with no running commentary in between. It will prevent this thread from becoming a 15 page monster which will defeat the point, since nobody wants to search when their baby is sick.

Thanks all.
Rob

 

[Tom]

Respiratory infections aren't too common with sulcatas. Really outside of pyramiding from being too dry and MBD from a total lack of UV, they are pretty bulletproof, unless someone gets one of those chronically dehydrated babies that I addressed here:
http://www.tortoiseforum.org/Thread-Hatchling-Failure-Syndrome#axzz1FxQR4RJi

Well I guess the coil bulb and the eye thing is a potential problem too.

I guess I'm saying that outside of a few common pitfalls (too cool, no UV, coil bulbs, poor diet, or HFS), they just don't get sick very often. Maybe addressing these things is what you had in mind?

 

[dmmj]

I think he may have been mainly talking about the long winded posts sometimes we see here. While I kinda like his idea, I really prefer a much info as possible, most of us here are not vets (with a few exceptions of course) so the more info someone provides the better it is for us non pros, until a vet can be contacted. As always if I am wrong then please correct me.

 

[Livingstone]

Photos should be a requisite for this, and yes, all those factors of poor husbandry should be addressed to. I had the concept down, I just didn't think it through.

 

[onarock]

I think if this concept was tweaked a bit, it could be a usefull tool especially for sulcata owners. I know sulcatas are well represented on the forum, but it seems like they are overly represented when it comes to illness. Just reading the species pages on sulcata's, I wouldnt exactly call them "bulletproof"

 

[Yvonne G]

I think it would be a good idea. Most care sheets have "illness" sections that address symptoms. We could have the thread as proposed and then close it to keep it clean from comments. We can add to or delete from to make it good. And suggest that anyone who wants to talk about it start a new thread. Then when someone comes on and says my sulcata baby isn't opening his eyes, all we have to do is copy/paste the link to our "illness" section.

I like the idea.

 

[Livingstone]

I think if this concept was tweaked a bit, it could be a usefull tool especially for sulcata owners. I know sulcatas are well represented on the forum, but it seems like they are overly represented when it comes to illness. Just reading the species pages on sulcata's, I wouldnt exactly call them "bulletproof"

Priceless! Thats exactly what I was thinking, just didn't want to say it.

---

I think it would be a good idea. Most care sheets have "illness" sections that address symptoms. We could have the thread as proposed and then close it to keep it clean from comments. We can add to or delete from to make it good. And suggest that anyone who wants to talk about it start a new thread. Then when someone comes on and says my sulcata baby isn't opening his eyes, all we have to do is copy/paste the link to our "illness" section.

I like the idea.

Thank you. I do agree with Tom that it should also represent husbandry caused issues, like eye problems from coil bulbs, etc, and so on. The two are so closely related, you can hardly have one without the other.

So lets do it, all experienced sulcata owners post up. Tell everybody what to look for and how to fix it

 

[Livingstone]

Upper Respiratory infection

*First signs: animal is lethargic, reluctant to eat, and sleeps alot.
Solution: Raise temperature's of sleeping quarters and basking spots by 5degress. Sleeping spot should be no cooler than 70, basking spot should be at 105 but no greater. Use baby food or vitasol soaks with warm water for 15 minutes twice a day. Reduce handling of the animal as stress can make infection worse.

**Secondary signs: Same as above but with intermittent bubbles at the nose.
Solution: Same as above but make a vet appointment to have the animal checked, it may need anti biotics. If the animal needs anti-biotics ask the vet about drops for the nose and eyes (gentocin) rather than injections which are difficult and traumatizing especially with hatchlings.

Vet list: http://tortoiseforum.org/tortoisevetlist.html

***Tertiary signs: Same as above but with open mouth breathing, gaping and wheezing.
Solution: If the infection has progressed to this point a vet visit is needed ASAP. Adjusting the temperatures and soaking will not cure the infection. You will need to address the temperatures, humidity, diet, and hydration to prevent it happening again.

Vet list: http://tortoiseforum.org/tortoisevetlist.html

As with all sick animals, keeping your hands clean, and reducing handling will help speed recovery. Handling causes stress, stress reduces the animals natural ability to fight infection/sickness.

 

[Scooter]

Why limit it to just the sulcatas?

 

[Livingstone]

Why limit it to just the sulcatas?

Because thread for thread there are more "help me" questions/problems.

Sulcatas seem to be the pet of choice for new keepers, there availability and price seem to ensure that there is no shortage of problem threads.

If you like the idea, by all means start your own thread in a species specific forum.

 

[TheBennillers]

Okay, so I am new to this... but can I ask what exactly is a baby food soak? Do you literally soak the tortoise in human baby food? I know it might be a stupid question... but I really don't know and was just curious.

 

[Seiryu]

Okay, so I am new to this... but can I ask what exactly is a baby food soak? Do you literally soak the tortoise in human baby food? I know it might be a stupid question... but I really don't know and was just curious.

Yes, but you mix it with water as well. I think a 50/50 Babyfood/water ratio is what most use. When the tortoise drinks, it gets some of the nutrients from the babyfood.

 

[Yvonne G]

Yeah, what Rob said!

We only use the baby food method on turtles and tortoises that aren't eating. It allows them to receive a few nutrients while we're waiting for them to get their appetite back.

 

[ALDABRAMAN]

Could it be that the majority of members have sulcatas on the forum is why this section is most popular with problems, etc. I think alot of first time new keepers get a sulcata, I know I did. They are very available and not exspensive for the first timer. Also, each species is so unique, hard to classify sysptoms as overall. Just a perspective.

 

[Maggie Cummings]

I thought there were more Redfoots on the forum than Sulcata. I think that most newbies get a cute Sulcata hatchling, then when it dies they get a Redfoot.


*First signs: Foaming at the mouth


**Secondary signs: Probably too hot, put in a cool water bath...possibly poisoned...take to the Vet immediately


Can you use that? We need to tell the new keepers not to wait if they think they have a sick animal. The longer they wait the less chance for survival, and I am thinking that waiting a while before going to the Vet is what kills a hatchling. Anyhow, there ya go, that's my addition...

 

[Livingstone]

Could it be that the majority of members have sulcatas on the forum is why this section is most popular with problems, etc. I think alot of first time new keepers get a sulcata, I know I did. They are very available and not exspensive for the first timer. Also, each species is so unique, hard to classify sysptoms as overall. Just a perspective.

I dont know if you are trying to be funny, but you are probably correct, it may be easier to diagnose the keeper than the tortoise.

 

[Yvonne G]

Too bad it hasn't been mandatory to include what type tortoise you keep in order to sign up. Then Josh would have that info at his fingertips and we could see the percentages. I'm with Maggie on this one. I felt sure there were more redfoots than sulcatas.

 

[erikacs]

What if my tortoise has nose bubbles (but is usually dry), makes a squeaking sound, bobs his head, and is a little dark around the eyes? But he is very active and has not lost his appetite.


This is my very 1st tortoise and I've had him for a week today. Just a bit concerned =]

 

[Livingstone]

Start of URI... Bubbles mean problems, squeek means bigger problem. Make a vet appt ASAP.

And of course... The usual questions, how old is the animal? Is the tort outside or inside? whats the humidity? whats the temp in the basking spot? What is the temp where it sleeps?

Please bump your temps up 5 degrees to speed up the torts metabolism to fight the infection. Also reduce handling if the tortoise is young, the handling stresses the tort and puts added pressure on the immune system... Think about it, you wouldn't recover from the flu if you were scared sh!tless.

Again call a vet, you need to get on an antibiotic for the bubbles, all the other stuff is not going to cut it. Gentocin is the drops I used, both in the eyes and nose in the morning.

***Also, pics are worth a thousand words, so anything you can show, from habitat to diet is worth seeing.

 

[erikacs]

Start of URI... Bubbles mean problems, squeek means bigger problem. Make a vet appt ASAP.

And of course... The usual questions, how old is the animal? Is the tort outside or inside? whats the humidity? whats the temp in the basking spot? What is the temp where it sleeps?

Please bump your temps up 5 degrees to speed up the torts metabolism to fight the infection. Also reduce handling if the tortoise is young, the handling stresses the tort and puts added pressure on the immune system... Think about it, you wouldn't recover from the flu if you were scared sh!tless.

Again call a vet, you need to get on an antibiotic for the bubbles, all the other stuff is not going to cut it. Gentocin is the drops I used, both in the eyes and nose in the morning.

***Also, pics are worth a thousand words, so anything you can show, from habitat to diet is worth seeing.

I think it's about a year old because the shell's diameter measures 4 inches. He lives outside on the grass during the day for sunlight and inside the moment it gets cold so he can be under a heat lamp all night. I'm not sure how to measure the humidity because I'm so new to this, but his sleeping tank has fir substrate for humidity and a hide box with a wet sponge on the top inside of it. I let him eat grass and mostly clover with crushed cuttlebone and I have soaked him 3-4 times since i bought him last friday. If I have absolutely no way to get him to a vet, what should I do?