Sulcata Health Issues - Searched Everywhere For Answers, Very Scared!

Karrahi

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We just got back from picking Harold up from our Vet, he spent the night there getting some fluids and tube feeding but I am just at a loss for what has happened.

We got him June 8th and within 2 weeks we had to treat him for an RI, not completely unbelievable given moving with us and getting used to his new home.

He has a 50g tank we started him, fresh water and fresh weeds/grass - mazuri sometimes (though he doesn't care for it). 80 to 95 in two areas - has a bonsai hide away that he uses and we have a combo uvb light (not coil but bulb) for basking for up to 14 hours a day. He also has access to calcium in a cuttle bone and a chalk block.

We made him a table but with the temps being hard to control I changed back to the tank for now.

We soak every day in terra-cotta dish out in the sun (watched) and is usually good about drinking - but doesn't usually pee or poop during soak.

I have attached some pictures of him to show what has happened and I just need to know what we can do - I am going to vet later today to learn how to syringe feed but he has told me that the prognosis is not good.

His arms stay upwards like that, this was an over the night change so I'm just at a loss I don't know what to do! IMG_0971.JPGIMG_0972.JPGIMG_0973.JPGIMG_0971.JPG IMG_0972.JPGIMG_0973.JPGIMG_0974.JPGIMG_0975.JPGIMG_0976.JPGIMG_0977.JPGIMG_0978.JPG

Has anyone seen this?
 

Stevieturtlelady

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Hmm...maybe try less grasses? Try feeding a carrot, and use warm treated tap water to bath him in.
 

Stevieturtlelady

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And make sure he's not stressed. Sometimes if you hold them to much it they get scared to much it can lead to illness.
 

Stevieturtlelady

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Hope he gets better! Just try more vegetables 2 times a week with a hand filled of spring mix everyday. I have a 4 month old sulcata. He eats this and is very strong and healthy!
 

Tidgy's Dad

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Where did you get him ?
It seems he has been raised too dry to me, without the necessary humidity, maybe before you got him.
http://www.tortoiseforum.org/threads/hatchling-failure-syndrome.23493/
Also, what type of tree is your bonsai ? Some are toxic to torts.
Check http://www.tortoiseforum.org/threads/how-to-raise-a-healthy-sulcata-or-leopard-version-2-0.79895/
and http://www.tortoiseforum.org/threads/beginner-mistakes.45180/
also http://www.tortoiseforum.org/threads/for-those-who-have-a-young-sulcata.76744/
to make absolutely sure the rest of your set up, temps, humidity etc are correct.
I wish you and him all the best, poor little mite.
 

Stevieturtlelady

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YES! They need water! His skin did look very dry! Good luck with that organic baby food!:) :)
 

Karrahi

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Where did you get him ?
It seems he has been raised too dry to me, without the necessary humidity, maybe before you got him.
http://www.tortoiseforum.org/threads/hatchling-failure-syndrome.23493/
Also, what type of tree is your bonsai ? Some are toxic to torts.
Check http://www.tortoiseforum.org/threads/how-to-raise-a-healthy-sulcata-or-leopard-version-2-0.79895/
and http://www.tortoiseforum.org/threads/beginner-mistakes.45180/
also http://www.tortoiseforum.org/threads/for-those-who-have-a-young-sulcata.76744/
to make absolutely sure the rest of your set up, temps, humidity etc are correct.
I wish you and him all the best, poor little mite.

I got him for Emerald Bay Repitile store - they have a breeder they know and trust very well, they only get one or two at a time no more then that.

The bonsai is a plastic bonsai it's just his hide.

I mean I would say if anything our humidity was on the low end when we first got him so we upped it to at least 70% but spraying/misting every morning and afternoon.

I've read all of those forums, that's actually why I took him out of the table we made because although it was smaller in the tank I could control the temps and humidity. It just seems I can't find any conclusions I just want to know there is hope because I am willing to put in the effort but I don't want him to suffer :(
 

Yvonne G

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I wouldn't feed a baby a carrot.

From your picture, I'm seeing a very thin tortoise. Because he is so thin, it looks like he is holding up his legs, but he's not.

You can tell by the raised scutes (pyramiding) that this baby was raised in too dry conditions, like tidgy's dad said. This may have caused irreversable damage to his inner organs.

Soak him in warm water daily for at least 30 minutes each time. You also need to feed him something that will put weight on. See if he'll eat Mazuri Tortoise Diet.
 

Karrahi

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I wouldn't feed a baby a carrot.

From your picture, I'm seeing a very thin tortoise. Because he is so thin, it looks like he is holding up his legs, but he's not.

You can tell by the raised scutes (pyramiding) that this baby was raised in too dry conditions, like tidgy's dad said. This may have caused irreversable damage to his inner organs.

Soak him in warm water daily for at least 30 minutes each time. You also need to feed him something that will put weight on. See if he'll eat Mazuri Tortoise Diet.

I have got Mazuri diet, when I go to the vet I am going to learn how to do syringe feed the Oxbow critical care.

I will hold off on the carrot - would it be safe to add some into the soak? Just to add some nurishment to the soak?

I reached out to where I got him from and they assured me this has never happened but I can't imagine with all of the obsessive work I have done that I could have given my baby a death sentence :(

I just don't know.
 

Karrahi

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Have you seen any baby get better from this? Like at any degree?
 

Yvonne G

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I use Gerber strained carrots in the soaking water when a tortoise isn't eating. They absorb a bit of nutrients through the thin skin around the neck and around the cloaca. And the strained carrots is the highest in vitamin A.
 

Tidgy's Dad

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He looks rather thin and the skin on the upper limbs is odd looking.
Some make it, for sure. It depends how bad any internal organ damage is.
But we have seen many, many tortoises on here brought back from the brink.
 

Tom

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We just got back from picking Harold up from our Vet, he spent the night there getting some fluids and tube feeding but I am just at a loss for what has happened.

We got him June 8th and within 2 weeks we had to treat him for an RI, not completely unbelievable given moving with us and getting used to his new home.

He has a 50g tank we started him, fresh water and fresh weeds/grass - mazuri sometimes (though he doesn't care for it). 80 to 95 in two areas - has a bonsai hide away that he uses and we have a combo uvb light (not coil but bulb) for basking for up to 14 hours a day. He also has access to calcium in a cuttle bone and a chalk block.

We made him a table but with the temps being hard to control I changed back to the tank for now.

We soak every day in terra-cotta dish out in the sun (watched) and is usually good about drinking - but doesn't usually pee or poop during soak.

I have attached some pictures of him to show what has happened and I just need to know what we can do - I am going to vet later today to learn how to syringe feed but he has told me that the prognosis is not good.

Some notes based on what you've told us:

  • There is no reason why a baby should have an RI two weeks after you got him. I've sold hundreds of babies and shipped them all over the place and none of them get RIs. What was the overnight low in your table or tank, and what equipment were you using to maintain night temps?
  • What type of Mazuri are you using? Most tortoises don't like the LS type. Most tortoises do like the original type.
  • Soaking in a shallow dish they can walk out of is not soaking. You need a tall sided opaque tub that the tortoise can't see or climb out of for soaking. Terra cotta saucers are great to use as water and food dishes, but they aren't god as a soaking tub.
  • Babies can't take a whole lot of vet care and fussing. I'm also not a fan of force feeding babies. If they aren't eating, there is a good reason. Fix the problem, if it is fixable, and they should begin to eat on their own.
  • This baby has had a rough go at life. Where did you get it? The person needs some help learning proper care for this species.
Read those threads that Adam linked for you. That should help get things moving in the right direction.
 

Karrahi

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Some notes based on what you've told us:

  • There is no reason why a baby should have an RI two weeks after you got him. I've sold hundreds of babies and shipped them all over the place and none of them get RIs. What was the overnight low in your table or tank, and what equipment were you using to maintain night temps?
  • What type of Mazuri are you using? Most tortoises don't like the LS type. Most tortoises do like the original type.
  • Soaking in a shallow dish they can walk out of is not soaking. You need a tall sided opaque tub that the tortoise can't see or climb out of for soaking. Terra cotta saucers are great to use as water and food dishes, but they aren't god as a soaking tub.
  • Babies can't take a whole lot of vet care and fussing. I'm also not a fan of force feeding babies. If they aren't eating, there is a good reason. Fix the problem, if it is fixable, and they should begin to eat on their own.
  • This baby has had a rough go at life. Where did you get it? The person needs some help learning proper care for this species.
Read those threads that Adam linked for you. That should help get things moving in the right direction.

1. I was concerned about it but we had our house set very cold, and it got in the 70s so we addressed that after reading you couldn't use a red bulb only the combo UVB bulb we got when we brought him home. Now the lowest temps is 80 (that's actually why I took him out of the table because we didn't have the best heat regulation yet so I didn't want to keep him in there just yet) the tank stays in the 80s without the UVB since it is small but we are looking to get another ceramic element.
2. It is the Mazuri LS - is the original the bigger ones? I can get some of that for sure.
3. He can't get out of the terra-cotta pot yet (he isn't it just a little too small, he tries often) but I didn't feel anything would hold the warm water and keep it warm like the terra-cotta. But I will try a different vessel.
4. I don't know what the reason could be, but I don't want to force feed him but I also don't want him to die because of starvation. It's a double edged sword but even my vet said he didn't want to do more than hydrate and feed him because it can be too stressful. I just feel like he took a turn in a matter of a day.
5. Emerald Bay: Fish and Reptile - they are based on Nashville, TN and I had heard good things but they said it hasn't ever happened to them and didn't offer much help or support.


I appreciate all the feed back and help. I just haven't stopped crying for three days.
 

Tom

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1. I was concerned about it but we had our house set very cold, and it got in the 70s so we addressed that after reading you couldn't use a red bulb only the combo UVB bulb we got when we brought him home. Now the lowest temps is 80 (that's actually why I took him out of the table because we didn't have the best heat regulation yet so I didn't want to keep him in there just yet) the tank stays in the 80s without the UVB since it is small but we are looking to get another ceramic element.
2. It is the Mazuri LS - is the original the bigger ones? I can get some of that for sure.
3. He can't get out of the terra-cotta pot yet (he isn't it just a little too small, he tries often) but I didn't feel anything would hold the warm water and keep it warm like the terra-cotta. But I will try a different vessel.
4. I don't know what the reason could be, but I don't want to force feed him but I also don't want him to die because of starvation. It's a double edged sword but even my vet said he didn't want to do more than hydrate and feed him because it can be too stressful. I just feel like he took a turn in a matter of a day.
5. Emerald Bay: Fish and Reptile - they are based on Nashville, TN and I had heard good things but they said it hasn't ever happened to them and didn't offer much help or support.


I appreciate all the feed back and help. I just haven't stopped crying for three days.


I'm sorry you are going through this. You are not alone, and its not your fault. All you can do is offer the best conditions possible and hope for the best.

If there is a next time, this is an entirely different experience when you buy a properly started and well cared for baby.
 

Karrahi

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I'm sorry you are going through this. You are not alone, and its not your fault. All you can do is offer the best conditions possible and hope for the best.

If there is a next time, this is an entirely different experience when you buy a properly started and well cared for baby.

Have you ever heard of skin or scale rot? The skin peeling scares me but I haven't really heard of it unless it was scraped but all the skin has pretty much fallen off his back legs
 

Yvonne G

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Do you know if the vet gave the animal a shot of Vit. A,D,E? Too much vitamin A causes the skin to peel off, sometimes down to the flesh.
 

Karrahi

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Do you know if the vet gave the animal a shot of Vit. A,D,E? Too much vitamin A causes the skin to peel off, sometimes down to the flesh.

Well the skin was peeling off well before this, I thought it had to do with shedding but this it was just white underneath and mostly back legs so not normal shedding.

This is what was administered:
Day 1:
Calcium Gluconate
Dextrose

Day 2:
Vitamin A+D injections plus two tube feedings of Oxbox critical care.

Day 3:
Tube feeding of critical care

All three days there was also subcutaneous fluids administered.

Just got back from the vet - he said he definitely made an improvement from this morning - he is trying to at least move around but he wants me to keep him warm.

Is it okay to leave the UVB light on tonight?

Thank you - I've all of your comments on other threads related and you guys are really just saving tortoises every day so it really just means so much.
 
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