Sudan Sulcata Update 1: Marv (Photo HEAVY)

[DeanS]

The largest of the Sudans that I own is Marv (YES! Named after the Mickey Rourke character in Sin City). Big dude with a heart of gold...mostly! I'm going to do a thorough update on their second ~birthday~ next month...but this is such a special guy I thought I'd show him...ready...yawning! BIG SURPRISE right? It seems like whenever I have the camera ready...they yawn! But, like Tom said, if it weren't for these shots, most people wouldn't know what the inside of a sulcata's mouth looks like. There are no duplicates here...all photos shot sequentially! He's a little lumpy... probably due to his fast growth. Tom attributes this to spending time in the CLOSED CHAMBERS...then being released to the outdoor habitat. Possibly, but I think it's due to faster growth! Marv is twice as large as his next largest sibling...9 inches and a hair under 5 pounds. None of his siblings are in the least bit lumpy!

 

[Yvonne G]

How on earth do you manage to capture a fly on a tortoise's nose? You've done this before, haven't you?

My gawd, but that's a pretty tortoise. I can't wait to see him a several years.

 

[AZtortMom]

He is a handsome boy indeed

 

[diamondbp]

He's got future giant written all over him!

 

[shanu303]

Wow.... amazing pics he's handsome

 

[Tom]

Marv looks great Dean. I've got to get out the camera, tape measure and scale at my place too. Man there is just so much we still haven't figured out yet. Your pyramiding (So mild I don't think we can even cal it "pyramiding") observations with Marv are opposite mine. In all of my groups of four species the largest fastest growers are all by far the smoothest and least pyramided. This is unanimous and without exception in 47 tortoises. Even with my own Sudans from the same batch as Marv.

All of this has been making me consider all of what we know about growth rates and stress as a possible factor in some cases of pyramiding. I've been raising lots of groups of tortoises together for the past few years and in every group some grow at a "normal" rate and some grow slower. Same diet enclosures and routines. What it is boiling down to is appetite. Some are just more eager to eat and eat longer and more than others. This observation is all well and good, but all it does is raise another question that I cannot yet answer: WHY? Why does Tuck eat only 6-10 bites and walk away, while Trey sits there and finishes the whole pile? With everything we've always been told about smooth growth, fast growth and slow growth, WHY is Trey much smoother than her much slower growing little brother? Why is Gargantua smoother than Blondie? Why are my 3+" 10 month old russians much smoother than their slower growing compatriots in the same enclosure?

What's more is the ratios: It seems in most of my groups about a third of them grow faster and smoother, a third slower and lumpier, and the remaining third in between. Again this generality is based on 47 torts in 8 groups. Why is this so consistent across 4 species of so many ages and sizes? Its the ratio we saw with our Sudans. Can you imagine how long it would take to make the same observations if people were raising all these tortoises one at a time. We could spend days trying to analyze and speculate about why tortoise A in one keepers care is growing faster and smoother than tortoise B in some other keepers care, and never figure it out. When they are all raised exactly the same we STILL see these differences and cannot yet explain them. Here is a list of factors we can eliminate based on my observations. We can safely say these dfferences in growth rate are not due to:
Genetics. My groups are all somewhat related if not direct siblings.
Enclosure size. They are all in the same enclosures.
Any enclosure parameters like humidity, light cycles or temperatures.
Soaking frequency. They all get the same in the same tub the same days.
Diet. They all eat the same foods off the same plates.
Supplements. Same as above.
Sunshine. If one goes out, they all go out.
Same as above with exercise.

This leaves me with behavioral differences as a possibility. Some eat or bask more. Some exercise and run around more. Some hide more. So many unanswered questions...

 

[DeanS]

@ Tom...I tried to simplify it. And yet, you're making me think again! One of the factors that killed me this past month was soaking. As you know, I use that Little Tikes pool to soak all the Sudans at once. Well...as it turns out, Marv was dominating even in there. I caught him using the smaller animals as stepping stones to try to climb out of the pool. Now, I soak the three larger ones together and the three smaller ones together...and this has made all the difference. Also, I'll point out that this lumpy stage that Marv's going through is the same thing MONSTRO was dealing with...and he grew out of that nicely! Time will tell if Marv conquers this with the same grace.

 

[TortyTom]

I have a silly question for @DeanS and @Tom. I have read that the Sudans are on the larger side. My Darwin is 2 years old and 10.18 pounds 13'' x 9''. Pretty darn big when reading about other two year olds only weighing 2 1/2 pounds. My question is, is there a way to distinguish the Sudans from others? Is it possible that my little rescue has some Sudan blood? Thanks!

 

[TortyTom]

So I guess the "tag" feature doesn't work? Or no one knows?

 

[Yvonne G]

The tag feature works, but only if the taggee is online.

I would guess that sulcatas in the U.S. are so mixed up in breeding lines that one would never know the answer to that question.

 

[TortyTom]

Thank you, Yvonne!

 

[Hauntmom]

In the pic where his mouth is the widest open he looks like Spike from the Land Before Time.... Damn did I just age myself?

 

[mollydee]

I agree def looks like spike !