Stopping those pyramids...and sort of introduction

[GuyC]

Hello All,

After sniping around this forum for very....very long, always looking and reading but never posting I'd figure I'd come out of the shadows and post pics.

I'm from the Netherlands, where I've kept reptiles all my life (my parents had a little group of Hermanni's in the garden since I was a kid). I'm a vet (I know...not the most popular here on the forums), and I did do extra work in the area reptiles. I'm very aware that knowledgeable keepers know infinitely more about reptiles and specific species than 99.9% of the vets, as I've been both

Here's some pics of our little Sulcata (Binky Poe), who had some pyramiding when I got him, but as you can sort of see in the pictures has dramatically slowed pyramiding due to the current borderline aquatic housing/treatments I've been giving. I'll maybe post some pictures in a couple of months, but this is the effect of about 2 months, where you can see a gradual decrease in pyramiding and about a mm of smooth formation in between the scutes right now.

Thanks for all the great advice, and see/stalk you around.

 

[Yvonne G]

Hi, and welcome to the Forum!

You are most welcome here, and I've made a note on my member's list that you are a vet. We're grateful that busy people such as yourself can take the time to join us here and share your knowledge with us. It's the vets who pretend to know about turtles and tortoise and offer bad advice that we are leery of.

Your little sulcata is a real cutey pie.

 

[popeye tortoise]

Hello and welcome to the forum

 

[ZEROPILOT]

WELCOME

 

[Tom]

Hello and welcome to you. Yvonne spelled it out very nicely, I think.

We love vets here. I am fortunate to call several veterinarians my personal friends. What we don't like are the vets who operate outside the areas of their knowledge base and do more harm than good because of their ignorance. This happens far too often over here in the states. But we have a couple of vets here on the forum that deserve nothing but praise for the excellent work they do. Public thanks to @deadheadvet and @exoticsdr .

I'm glad you decided to chime in and even more glad that you've enjoyed our forum prior to joining. Thanks for sharing your tortoises progress with us.

 

[GuyC]

Thanks for the lovely messages.

I agree wholeheartedly with your views, and I know bad advice is occasionally given, sometimes out of ignorance, and sometimes out of arrogance.

For those interested I've added the weight chart, which I'll update. I wanted to post some pictures because I've seen the excellent pyramiding prevention/wet keeping series, but I haven't seen a pyramiding halted series (may have missed it?).

 

[Speedy-1]

Hi and welcome !

 

[GuyC]

New pics.

Growth going steady, going outside on the nice days for an hour or so. He/she is trained to sleep in the humid box, which is 99% humidity at night, and about 75% during the day. The ridge between the scutes seemed to widen and then fill out. Seems to be continuing smoothly, but I'm curious to see how it further develops.

 

[Yvonne G]

I love the graphics on your chart!

 

[Gregor]

How did you train him to sleep in the humid box?

 

[GuyC]

Hmm, yeah reading it back it does sound like I was saying I was working with a clicker and dogtreats...

Nothing quite so complicated. I We did the same thing with the many hermanni's we used to have in the garden. You start out with the cage without a sleeping box and see where they naturally draw towards to go to sleep (they always seem to want to burrow their head in some corner or other. Then you introduce the box in that area with an opening in the exact direction of their regular entrance path. Sometimes putting him/her in if they don't get it at first. When Binky had taken to the box, then I started increasing the humidity in there up to what it now is. I think Binky sleeps there 9 out of 10 nights, and every midday at the warmest.

 

[GuyC]

 

[Jere5291978]

Hello All,

After sniping around this forum for very....very long, always looking and reading but never posting I'd figure I'd come out of the shadows and post pics.

I'm from the Netherlands, where I've kept reptiles all my life (my parents had a little group of Hermanni's in the garden since I was a kid). I'm a vet (I know...not the most popular here on the forums), and I did do extra work in the area reptiles. I'm very aware that knowledgeable keepers know infinitely more about reptiles and specific species than 99.9% of the vets, as I've been both

Here's some pics of our little Sulcata (Binky Poe), who had some pyramiding when I got him, but as you can sort of see in the pictures has dramatically slowed pyramiding due to the current borderline aquatic housing/treatments I've been giving. I'll maybe post some pictures in a couple of months, but this is the effect of about 2 months, where you can see a gradual decrease in pyramiding and about a mm of smooth formation in between the scutes right now.

Thanks for all the great advice, and see/stalk you around.

View attachment 167056 View attachment 167057

Hi im new to forums but i seen your pics of the sulcata and i was just wondering what your feeding him now .what kind of diet it he on. If you dont mind me asking

 

[mike taylor]

Welcome !

 

[GuyC]

Thanks Mike, Hi Jere,

I've attached another photo, where hopefully you can see that it keeps getting better (maybe this is too much wishful thinking on my side).

The diet is basically whatever is available here (Netherlands) easily: arugula or some other if pickings from the garden are slim, with added ends from zuchini (we eat zuchini pretty often so he gets the top and bottom. From the garden dandelion or other common plants, and a tortoise pellet whenever I feel like it. Maybe some bellpepper as a treat whenever we cook with them. I tend to give him whatever he likes in moderation and make sure the bulk of his food is high fiber plant-stuff. It is my opinion however that these very quick growing tortoises need to have protein, so that's why he gets the pellets (I have a theory on how this works in the wild, but haven't found any science to back it up).

I think many of the protein problems from the past were due to the base diet not being a fibrous diet, but again this is a personal chocie not based on research. Anything specific you wanted to know?

 

[GuyC]

 

[GuyC]

To compare, this is a picture from the first day we had Binky

 

[Jere5291978]

He looks like he's getting better. I had 2 sulcatas. The one i had years ago and the one i have now. The one i had years ago i had to get rid of. I took the advive of the vender at the reptile expo on the feeding and i ended up with a very bumpy tortoise and it got very expensive to feed him so i had to get rid of him. I wish i knew then what i know now.They say you dont want your tortoise to grow too fast because fast growth can lead to pyramiding. I disagree, i think your tortoise will grow fast no matter what and if hes not shoving his face with the right stuff his shell wont grow right and he will have problems inside and out. I think that feeding from the garden can be just as bad as feeding from the grocery store. Think of your tortoise as a horse or a cow. They dont eat zuccini or bell peppers. An animal of that great size can grow and be one of the most powerful animals and maintain itself on just grass .to me thats amazing and it tells you a little bit about whats in that grass. The nutrients in the grasses is far greater than anything you can give your tortoise from the garden. Us humans may not like the taste of grass but grazing animals do. The new tortoise i have now only eats grasses and he eats as much of it as he wants and the best thing is that its free. Right now where i live its too cold outside so he is in an encolsure inside the house. His bedding is timothy hay and he munches on that during the day while im at work and when i get home i bring in fist fulls of grass mostly clovers, dandilion leaves and the flowers and i sit and watch him feed his face like a pig and i love the results im getting. I dont even create a humid hide spot like some people say you should do. He has a hide spot but not humid. Im not a person with years of experience but im happy with how my sulcata is looking and i get happy everytime i look at him. Its not complicated, its just grass. Your tortoise looks young yet and i bet he would love it if you threw a fist full of green clovers in that tank, some nice dark green vitamin packed clovers lol. Calcium twice a week and soak once a week and good uv light and thats it. ​

 

[GuyC]

I think you misunderstood me, the bulk of his diet is grass/dadelion etc. with occasional extras. While I agree with your idea that tortoises can be tought of as cows/ horses, the latter is more apt as they are both hid gut fermenters, which means that they ferment the cellulose chains/fibres in the colon/ceacum for their nutrients. The fermentation process can be distorted if you overfeed easily fermented products (such as for example fruit with sugars). Ironically grass at a certain time of the year (here in the Netherlands in the beginning of summer), can be so rich that it is actually too easily fermented for for example cows and horses.
In the end I think balance is everything, and while I completely agree that there is no specific reason to give your tortoise anything other than 'grassy stuff', in my case I just enjoy giving my tortoise a treat and I think that's reason enough. I do disagree with you on the soaks, though your tortoises look very nice, I soak mine every day.

 

[Jere5291978]

I soaked mine more often when he was smaller too as he got older i soaked less. I know when you look for information on how to care for these guys there is not much out there. And a lot of info out there from people selling these guys is no good. So we look for info and put our own method together that makes the most sense. Thats why i put my comment on your thread just to get some info out there and maybe you or someone could use a piece of it. Good luck with the little guy and keep posting his progress so we how he progresses