Sluggish

[Jason M]

I have two horsfields, one male and one female both (so I was told) are three years old, the male is quite a bit bigger than the female and he is very active where as she is very sluggish and scared of everything, both of them eat ok as far as I know (not sure how much they eat since new to this), since I have got them I have been bathing them every other day like I have read on other comment on this forum. Do you think she is ok and I should not compare them against each other or am I right to worry about her.

 

[GBtortoises]

How big is each one (straight carapace length)? Male Russian tortoises are typically often more active than females, it's simply their nature. But a reason for the female being "scared" could be because of the male's domination, which is very natural. The existance and/or level of domination will depend greatly on the size and age of the male and if it is sexually mature yet. At some point you are probably going to find it difficult to keep a single female with a male Russian because of the males strong territorial dominance. Sizes, enclosure size and some photos would help greatly in assessing the situation.

 

[Jason M]

Hi there GBtortoise,

He (Shelldon) weighs in at 343g and is 11cm long.
She (Aimee) weights in at 244g and is 10th long.

I took these pictures when I was setting up the cage, there is a uv strip light on the cage that is not in the picture.

The hot end of the cage is 30c and the cool end is 19c, as far as I can make out this is about right.
I am in the process of designing a new and bigger table top for them, which I am hoping to build this weekend though still
Not sure on the design.

There cage at the moment is about a meter by half a meter.

---

 

[ascott]

I would plan on setting up each their individual enclosure to start with....give it some time and see how the smaller one does ....there is likely bullying going on. While they will co exist in the same enclosure...pairs are a hard thing to achieve and one will usually not thrive the same as the other..... also, what leads you to believe that you have a male and female?

 

[Maggie Cummings]

They are too small to sex and it looks like you are feeding them just lettuce and that's not good. They need a diet that consists mostly of weeds. Get some dandelions out of the yard and offer that to them. Maybe you can get dandelions at your grocery store. Or other weeds or collards, endive escarole romaine, different lettuces like that. If they were mine I would separate them...I'd bet the smaller one is being bullied...possibly you don't see it because it's mental.

 

[Jason M]

The reason why i was told one was male and one was female is that the male has a very long tail that he tucks round where as the female has a very stubby tail that is more like a triangle, they are very different indeed, that is how I was told by pet shop.......is this right or wrong.

And yes I am going to separate them in there own homes, i am one of those feelish people that thought they would be better together for company, but ever since reading a thread on here last night about keeping them together I felt very sad and feel very foolish.

I have been feeding them weeds from my garden as well.

 

[ascott]

Oh cool....and please do not feel foolish...no need to do that, as it sounds like you are still in the research stage and you are in the right place for sound advice and opinions

You will likely see a difference in the little ones entire self after a couple of weeks of them being in their own enclosure....and I understand the feel good thinking....I wish we could all just get along LOL.....in an ideal world, huh ?

I love when I go that imaginary place....ahhh and ideal world...oh, sorry let me come back...

Also, people can guess all we want to on the sex of the babies and although we muck that all up LOL...you can be sure that the little ones already know what one another is....either a male on male dominance or a male being a pushy male in the tortoise world.....you will do fine and especially since you are putting the feelers out for any help, opinions and advice....

 

[Jason M]

God it is so hard to know what the right thing to do for them is sometimes, after waiting 32 years to have tortoises it is like having children all over again........scary but at the same time wonderful and above all one big learning curve.
Now I have a new worry, the sudo male has had a wee and has white jelly stuff in it, never seen that from them before. Is that normal?
can't ever remember fretting over the kids like this, maybe I did, was some time ago, my children are now 18,21,25.
Anyway don't burst my bubble, I know there is a place that is perfect where no one worries and the world is at piece.......... ;-)
So about the sexing them.....you are saying what I was told was a load of tosh, I wonder what else the pet shop told me that is wrong.......do you think I should worry about that too....lol, think I am heading in the total opposite why to that place they call the ideal world..lol

 

[Jason M]

Hope this picture is good enough for you to see there tails, like I said one is really long and the other one is really short more like a triangle.

 

[GBtortoises]

Based on your the sizes you stated, the male (11cm) is very near sexual maturity size while the female (10cm) has quite a way to go. Also at that size they should be very easy to determine the gender of based on their tail size and shape. Post some clear photos of each of their tails extended and they should be able to be determined. A male Russian can reach sexual maturity, as well as becoming territorial and sexually aggressive at around 11.5cm and up. A female does not sexually mature until around 15.5cm.

If the temperatures you stated are daytime temperatures the enclosure is too cold at the "cool" end during the daytime. During the daytime the enclosure should be in the 22.5-27c range on the cooler end. With a temperature of 35-40.5c directly under the basking light. The heat radiating from the basking light will create a warmer ambient temperature at that end of the enclosure. At night the temperatures can be as low as 13c but 15.5-18c is fine.

---

View attachment 13059

Hope this picture is good enough for you to see there tails, like I said one is really long and the other one is really short more like a triangle.

The tortoise on the left is positively a male. The other looks to be female but a photo of the tail from the underside would tell much better. Young males that size do sometimes have underdeveloped tails. So a photo of the tail extended so that the vent (anal opening) can be clearly seen would help.

 

[Jason M]

Not very good pictures but hope they are good enough. Was told that they where front the same batch and that they where both 3 years old

 

[Maggie Cummings]

Well, I sure apologize for saying they were too small to sex. That was my opinion and I sure was wrong...Sorry...

 

[Jason M]

Lol, that ok. To be honest I really was not sure anyway, was only going by what I was told and a lot of that seem wrong.