Seeing tortoises are opportunist-what's your thoughts?

[wellington]

what is your opinion on feeding ALL tortoises raw meat and/or seafood a couple times a year?

It enters my head every time I read that they are opportunist in the wild. Wouldn't it be beneficial to offer it up once or twice a year in captivity too?

 

[Big Charlie]

I don't see the benefit. Does a tortoise in the wild eat meat as a first choice when it is available or only because he is hungry and there is nothing else? We had a couple of crows die in our yard and Charlie ignored the dead bodies. I was worried he would take a bite and catch some disease before we had a chance to dispose of them.

 

[ascott]

If you offer a pure organic , meat material I would imagine there would be no problem if offered as you desfribed...I am not sure that all torts would eat the meat material??

 

[dmmj]

well they do eat what they can find in the wild it doesn't mean it's good. meat protein it's awfully high for what I've read and been told to high for your average herbivore. and then what happens if your Russian must say developed a taste for meat and then only wants meet? then you got a bloodthirsty monster that only sees you as a walking fish stick.I also see no real benefit to feeding them thusly I honestly don't know if once or twice a year would hurt. it's just a path that I don't want to start down. can you imagine a bloodthirsty meat eating sulcata 100 pounds charging at you? not even in my worst nightmare

 

[wellington]

Luckily I don't have a Sulcata. I can see the red in its eyes now.
I haven't fed meat and don't really plan too. I just always wonder, if it wouldn't be a benefit as it would be a natural part of their nature, should they happen upon something in the wild, which I'm sure they probably do from time to time. I sure wouldn't feed it more then once or twice a year and it wouldn't be anything huge, something similar that they might happen upon more often in the wild, like a small bird, rodent or dead fish/crab.
I did once drop some dried krill in my leopards pen and he loved it and he's a picky eater. The only time I really seen him almost attack food. I did then feed it once in a while, but stopped as he seemed less interested the more I made it available, plus it was for my turtle and fish at the time.
I also always wondered as when I was searching tortoise pics in the wild, I happened upon quite a few eating other dead torts, animals and even fish. I remember one with Aldabras eating sea food, can't remember if it were fish or crustaceans and also eating another dead Aldabra.

 

[Tom]

I've pondered this one a bit and I don't have an answer. Multiple sources have confirmed that wild tortoises of several species will opportunistically consume carrion and mammal feces in the wild, but I still don't see myself offering either, even on an infrequent basis. I certainly would not offer any sort of seafood. Freshwater fish or crabs, maybe, but nothing from the ocean. I've seen and also heard stories of tortoises hunting and eating freshly killed animals, but still, should we intentionally feed them these things? I just don't know…

 

[wellington]

I've pondered this one a bit and I don't have an answer. Multiple sources have confirmed that wild tortoises of several species will opportunistically consume carrion and mammal feces in the wild, but I still don't see myself offering either, even on an infrequent basis. I certainly would not offer any sort of seafood. Freshwater fish or crabs, maybe, but nothing from the ocean. I've seen and also heard stories of tortoises hunting and eating freshly killed animals, but still, should we intentionally feed them these things? I just don't know…

I figured more or less, that if they would eat it in the wild, it would or could be one small element we could offer or are missing out on offering on that very rare occasion. Now, I would not let them eat my animals poop, dog, cat, etc, as they would not come across those kinds of feces, also for the fact our dogs are vaccinated and or drugged. However, the wild birds, rabbits, squirrels, skunks that I have in my yard almost every day and night, plus the occasional coon, fox, coyote and deer, I wouldn't expect to worry about their feces being eaten, I'm sure some already have been. As for dead animals, again, if I were to offer that, I would want it to be something more familiar to what they might come across and that of course was never medicated or vaccinated.
I just keep wondering if it's a small amount of something they could be missing in their diet for whatever purpose it could have or, if it's just not needed or craved at all, but if they come across it, they wouldn't turn it down.
@Tom, maybe a good question to ask Toma if you still ever get to talk to him any more. Would be nice to know,if this is actually observed a lot in the wild or not. The occasional pics found on the Internet, who really knows how wild the torts are and if they are very rare sight to see or not.

 

[wellington]

@tortadise any thoughts on this in all your conservation work you do?
@ALDABRAMAN have you ever found any info about the Aldabras actually eating seafood/crabs or another dead tortoise in any of your research you may have done on them. If my memory is correct, it was an Aldabra that ate a crab or fish, can't remember which. Also an Aldabra and a Sulcata that I had seen pics of and it had been assumed they ate the dead tortoise. Two separate pics and location of course.

 

[wellington]

@N2TORTS and @allegraf any animal meat fed for your RF protein? If so, do they seek it out over the regular food?

@terryo @Yvonne G @Jacqui how about the Box turtles protein? Ever use animal meat? If so, do they seem to seek it out over their regular food and insects?

Just kinda wondering if they eat it cause it's there/offered or do they search it out first?

 

[Tom]

@Tom, maybe a good question to ask Toma if you still ever get to talk to him any more. Would be nice to know,if this is actually observed a lot in the wild or not. The occasional pics found on the Internet, who really knows how wild the torts are and if they are very rare sight to see or not.

Tomas told me that dying animals frequently seek out shelter from the burning African sun in sulcata burrows and that after the animals die, the sulcatas eat them. There was no mention of exactly how often this happens or what percentage of the diet it makes up. So little is known about the wild ones.

I read in the book on Bert Langerwerf's life that he used to cut up whole frozen turkeys with a band saw to feed his tegu colony. He would toss the scraps and bones to his sulcatas and they would gobble them up. Did this for years apparently. I would love to know the state of the internal organs and the general health of those animals...

 

[ALDABRAMAN]

@ALDABRAMAN have you ever found any info about the Aldabras actually eating seafood/crabs or another dead tortoise in any of your research you may have done on them.

~ I have read a few things indicating that they do eat carrion in the wild, however we have never seen ours have any interest. Do not think our group is a good example, they are exceptionally fed and the opportunity for our group is limited to such options. The neighbors cat was dead in the field for a day or so and other than basic interest there was no attempt to eat it. Our population has never had any interest in dog poo at all.

~ I will share an experience that a friend had a few years back. A large young male had passed and they had left it in the habitat for a few weeks. Several other aldabra tortoises did nibble and take small bites from the neck area.

 

[wellington]

Tomas told me that dying animals frequently seek out shelter from the burning African sun in sulcata burrows and that after the animals die, the sulcatas eat them. There was no mention of exactly how often this happens or what percentage of the diet it makes up. So little is known about the wild ones.

I read in the book on Bert Langerwerf's life that he used to cut up whole frozen turkeys with a band saw to feed his tegu colony. He would toss the scraps and bones to his sulcatas and they would gobble them up. Did this for years apparently. I would love to know the state of the internal organs and the general health of those animals...

Very interesting. This Bert guy, is he still alive do you know? I wonder if we could find him or some of his tortoises. It would be interesting to see how they are doing, even if we can't look inside them. Their age, how their health has been, etc.

Maybe @jaizei can find out some more info on him. He can just about find anything.

 

[wellington]

~ I have read a few things indicating that they do eat carrion in the wild, however we have never seen ours have any interest. Do not think our group is a good example, they are exceptionally fed and the opportunity for our group is limited to such options. The neighbors cat was dead in the field for a day or so and other than basic interest there was no attempt to eat it. Our population has never had any interest in dog poo at all.

~ I will share an experience that a friend had a few years back. A large young male had passed and they had left it in the habitat for a few weeks. Several other aldabra tortoises did nibble and take small bites from the neck area.

Wow, so sad, kinda gross, yet, very interesting.
With your group, do they ever eat their own poop, or one of the other torts poop?

Possilby more necessity to eat an animal In the wild due to lack of grazing, more then actually opportunity, but because they (yours)have never gone without, there is no need to eat it. Or Possibly the cat isn't something familiar to what they would come across. Fish or shell fish might be something they would be more familiar with.

 

[N2TORTS]

Now speaking for Redfoots ....yes very much so "opportunistic" not that seafood would be on their list
Although red-foots are commonly found in relatively dry grassland and forest areas, this species is also found in humid forest habitat. There is some disagreement as to which habitat is the preferred type. Walker (1989) states that red-foots prefer grasslands and dry forest areas, and that rain-forest habitat is most likely marginal. Other authors however, state or suggest that humid forest is the preferred habitat (Legler, 1963) (Moskovits, 1988). In the wild, red-foots are reported as being primarily herbivorous, but also consuming a small amount of animal matter such as carrion which can be more abundant in this type of "eco-zone"
The Hypo's and Cherries I own have no problem scarfing down "any " type meats .....including grubs, pinkie mice and even baby birds. I have often wondered and almost want to "prove a theory out" that the larger Cherries I own would even go after and cannibalize one of their own who is just emerging from the egg or a couple days old. (yet I haven't found the guts to try it out on one of my own hatchings') The smaller proteins (animals) mentioned above - when "alive" also draws attention right away when squiggling around.

 

[ALDABRAMAN]

Wow, so sad, kinda gross, yet, very interesting.

~ Yes, when he called i actually drove to his place and saw for myself.

 

[ALDABRAMAN]

With your group, do they ever eat their own poop, or one of the other torts poop?

~ Never!

 

[wellington]

I don't see the benefit. Does a tortoise in the wild eat meat as a first choice when it is available or only because he is hungry and there is nothing else? We had a couple of crows die in our yard and Charlie ignored the dead bodies. I was worried he would take a bite and catch some disease before we had a chance to dispose of them.

The problem is, we don't really know if there is a benefit or not. It's also not really known if they would eat any animal, or something more familiar to what they would come across. Do they all eat meat in the wild or some do some don't for what ever reason. Do only males eat it for mating season or maybe it's the females for laying season? I keep thinking if they eat it in the wild, maybe it's something they need.

 

[wellington]

Now speaking for Redfoots ....yes very much so "opportunistic" not that seafood would be on their list
Although red-foots are commonly found in relatively dry grassland and forest areas, this species is also found in humid forest habitat. There is some disagreement as to which habitat is the preferred type. Walker (1989) states that red-foots prefer grasslands and dry forest areas, and that rain-forest habitat is most likely marginal. Other authors however, state or suggest that humid forest is the preferred habitat (Legler, 1963) (Moskovits, 1988). In the wild, red-foots are reported as being primarily herbivorous, but also consuming a small amount of animal matter such as carrion which can be more abundant in this type of "eco-zone"
The Hypo's and Cherries I own have no problem scarfing down "any " type meats .....including grubs, pinkie mice and even baby birds. I have often wondered and almost want to "prove a theory out" that the larger Cherries I own would even go after and cannibalize one of their own who is just emerging from the egg or a couple days old. (yet I haven't found the guts to try it out on one of my own hatchings') The smaller proteins (animals) mentioned above - when "alive" also draws attention right away when squiggling around.

Wow, so if a live baby bird falls into your yard, your torts will actually hunt it down and attack/eat it? That's amazing, I never thought of a tortoise like that. I mean with bugs yes, but wouldn't have thunk it with live rodents or birds.
As for going after a tortoise egg. You should take an emerging baby, put it in the yard, and see what the adults do, but pick the little one up before they actually have a chance to hurt it? If they go after it like they would a bird or pinky, you could safely assume they would eat it. You could also replace the baby at the last second with a slightly cracked chicken egg and see if they rip into it. No baby sacrificed that way.

 

[N2TORTS]

They will go after an egg no problem ...I have tried that ! Let me tell ya what .....if barefoot and walking around the tortoise yard - stopping for whatever task , the larger Torts have no problems coming straight for your toes. Cindy and I have been bitten many of times. Either by experiment and choice ....or "zap" ...Dang nab it! They have a very keen sense of smell as well as eyesight. I don't think you would want to pull something out of "Oscars" mouth , and the such he is quite the "wolfer" as Reds do not "chew" their food as much as some of the other species.

 

[N2TORTS]